At the Crossroads: Emotion, Intentionality, and the Power of Connection
Creating experiences that are intentional is about being in the moment. And that's the only way that we can connect with people.
Brian Rowley:Welcome to Prose + Comms, Engagement Unplugged. Today's a conversation all about crossroads moments. And I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:And I'm Laura Smith. Today, we're going to dig into a topic that most marketers will face at some point in their career. What happens when your brand finds itself at a crossroads? These moments can show up in all kinds of ways. Maybe it's a rebrand, a shift in business strategy, or responding to a crisis.
Laura Smith:Sometimes just keeping up with customer expectations. And when you're in the middle of it, the big question becomes, how do you decide what to do next?
Brian Rowley:And I think, Laura, that's actually a really interesting part of it. Right? Like how much does emotion play into those decisions? And when is it smart to play it safe? And when is it worth sort of taking a risk?
Brian Rowley:And today we're actually joined by a really, a very special guest of ours, someone who sort of helped some of the world's biggest brands sort of rewire how they think about performance, perspective, people, and the ways in which they connect with customers. And we'll explore everything from brands taking risks to influences that they have, and how they help people or ways in which they make people feel.
Laura Smith:But before we get into the heart of today's episode, we're kicking things off with something we call In the Moment. Are you ready? It's a quick take that ties in today's theme and gets us all thinking. Since we're talking how emotion influences decisions, here's one we're gonna start with. Brian, what's the best ad or commercial that's ever gripped your emotions?
Laura Smith:Might have made you laugh, tear up, or just take action?
Brian Rowley:Well, I think anybody that actually knows me knows that I'm a big, big fan of the Nike brand. And I think one of the most powerful ads that I've seen from them was one that they did in regards to finding your greatness. And it was all centered around just ordinary people doing extraordinary things and encountering sort of obstacles, but not only just obstacles, but actually how they overcame them. And it was actually kind of interesting because Nike did this at a point where I believe they were not selected as one of the sponsors or chose not to be a part of the Olympics. And the reason they came out with this particular ad was to show that it doesn't always require a medal in order for you to get your greatness, that people can achieve that every day.
Brian Rowley:And it was just some really powerful things in ways in which people sort of overcame those obstacles. So it was actually one of my favorites and continues to be. And I think Nike in general does a really good job when it comes to their ads and making them really personal and creating sort of that emotion within its viewers. But I'm curious, how about yourself?
Laura Smith:Well, before I dive in, what was the emotion you feel though when you when you listen to that ad or you watch that ad? Like, is it?
Brian Rowley:I think it's just it's a moment of just accomplishment, to be honest with you. Like you felt like things, anything was achievable. I mean, that's obviously what it was, right? Achieving greatness. But it was actually just it was accomplishment and seeing people who had various challenges be able to overcome that and the emotion that it incurred in them in doing that was really, really powerful.
Brian Rowley:So let's not skip my question, which you do all the time, but let's just get back to and how about yourself?
Laura Smith:Okay. So mine was our surrounding World Mental Health day, and it's of two gentlemen watching a Norwich City football club. They go into the game week to week. They have seats next to each other. And every week, one gentleman comes in and and kind of, like, tries to talk to the guy next to him, and the guy next to him is always pretty, he's just melancholy.
Laura Smith:He's really chill. He's not super happy, whereas the gentleman that we're focused on is really, like, super excited, cheering, standing, yelling. And every week to week to week, they kinda play that role. One's super happy and into the game. One's just pretty chill and just not really super happy.
Laura Smith:And in the end, that that really happy gentleman doesn't show up to the game. And what it seems to be is he's no longer with us, and it just really struck that cord of, know, mental health is around us. You know, mental everyone has mental not everybody, but people have mental health issues, and we don't always know it. So it just struck a cord because it's a really common theme today, and we know this. And whether people in your lives directly or people that may be, you know, extended family or friends may have some issues, it's just so important to remember that you may not know that someone has an issue.
Laura Smith:So it just struck the cord of like, wow. That's reality. You know? And so, it wasn't like, you know, the happiest ad, but it definitely felt like this is a real life situation, and they brought it into a a very relatable environment and something that people could take away and probably, like, you know, pause and just think, wow, maybe I should pick up the phone and call somebody to make sure they were okay.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, it's definitely one of those topics I don't think we talk enough about. And I can tell you that experiencing it in my family and having gone through that and some of what happens to those that are impacted by some of the mental health issues that are out there. They do just need people to talk about it. Like it doesn't change everything. It doesn't make things go away.
Brian Rowley:But just having a conversation and feeling like it's okay to have that conversation does change that. So I applaud any brand, any company, any organization that's actually bringing awareness to that because I think more needs to, to sort of help those people that really do struggle every day with it.
Laura Smith:Yep, agreed. Okay. That was our In the Moment segment. I wanna say it was fun, but it was also very much the reality. So that was a good exchange, Brian.
Laura Smith:So it is amazing how certain ads can still sit with us after time, right? The ad that I'm talking about, I think may have been a year old and it wasn't even really a brand or, like, why don't watch football? But it's something that obviously stuck with me and similarly for you, Brian. And that emotional pull is exactly what we're diving into today. We're talking about what happens when brands find themselves at a crossroads and how emotions shape those pivotal decisions.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And I mean, we're really fortunate today to have and to welcome Jez Rose onto our show. For those of you that don't know Jez, he's a best selling author. He's written multiple books on business leadership, customer experience, and strategies for career success. He's worked with, you know, a ton of Fortune 100 companies helping business leaders sort of shift the perspective and a path for growth, innovation and resilience.
Brian Rowley:But I will tell you personally, I had the honor of having Jez actually keynote speak a meeting that I held at one time. And I will say that it was one of the most impactful keynotes that I've attended. And it wasn't just my perspective, but it was also those that were there had given me that same feedback. So Jez, welcome to the show, super happy to have you.
Jez Rose:It was a lovely introduction. Thank you very much. I'm excited for this really because this will be, if this goes well, it will be the first time that I will not end up in the ER as a result of working with you, Brian. I was
Brian Rowley:gonna let that go, but thanks for bringing that up.
Laura Smith:Yes, that is the point,
Jez Rose:isn't it? You were gonna let it go. Thank you for having me. I'm delighted to be here.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. So I mean, you know, Jez one of the things and one of the things that was why we wanted to have you be a part of this was obviously you talk a lot about creating intentional experiences. And I was hoping that you, for our audience, could explain exactly what you mean by that. And what role does intentionality play when we're sort of standing at a crossroads?
Jez Rose:That's a very good question. I am a big advocate of conscious living, and there are a number of reasons for that. Firstly, 47% of our waking time is spent on autopilot. We're not consciously thinking about what we're doing. And that to me is remarkable.
Jez Rose:That means that 50% of almost 50%, almost half the time that we're awake, we're not even aware of what we're doing. We're not conscious of it, which probably explains some of the people you work with, perhaps I don't know. And so this notion of being present and in the moment is a core part of my life, always has been. I've been a Buddhist since I was 15. It sort of dipped in and out of that practice.
Jez Rose:And it's a core part of Buddhism, this notion of being very much in the present moment. However, park that to one side for a second. From a sort of behavioral perspective, all human behavior is explained by antecedents, behavior and consequence. So antecedents is the thing that causes behavior, the sort of trigger. And then every behavior has a consequence.
Jez Rose:That's the ABC of human behavior. Well, if we're not conscious, if we're not sort of creating an intentional experience, and I'll come to this in a second in a bit more detail, we're not ever gonna be conscious of what the consequences are we? So very often we just respond, we just react. Somebody says something, a cutting remark, a very quick email. You don't pause and think about what the consequence might be or what the best response is.
Jez Rose:We just do it all the time. So why is it important? Because we're going to die, Brian. Everybody is going the same direction. And we don't like to talk about it.
Jez Rose:And so we just pretend that it's not going to happen. And then we just let life happen to us. And what began to frustrate me, I lost a lot of people in my life very early on. So I've always been very hypersensitive to life and living it and it's fragility. And Laura made the point of that advert is an awesome advert.
Jez Rose:I've seen it so many times and the lovely twist at the end, you should go seek it out or add it into the show notes or something. Doesn't go where you think it's gonna go. But why is it that life only changes for people when someone dies? Why do we have to wait to get a cancer diagnosis and then go, gosh, that was a close call. I should change my life now.
Jez Rose:Why is it that we have to lose our dad and go, oh gosh, maybe I've been too busy making a living and not spending enough time making a life. Why do we wait? So we've got to ask more questions. Now, if we're more intentional, the only way we're gonna be able to do that is to be in the moment. This moment right now, as I am talking, as you are listening to my voice is the only moment that we have any guarantee of.
Jez Rose:Everything that happened before, we can't do anything about. There's no guarantee about what's gonna happen in the future. Literally this moment here is it. We got to wake up this morning. There was a ton of people that didn't and a ton of people that didn't expect not to wake up this morning either.
Jez Rose:Right? So when you're at that crossroads, you have to be in the moment in order to understand and appreciate what is the direction you can go in. Because we've all made those long plans in business, in life, emotionally, spiritually, financially. The road is never straight. You never go from A to B.
Jez Rose:You go A, 8.1, eight point five, seven, D tour via G, backfire H, double skip over Zed, we didn't think we were gonna get there. Oh, back to B again. It's never in a straight line. So intentionality and creating experiences that are intentional is about being in the moment. And that's the only way that we can connect with people.
Jez Rose:We can't connect to people's future or people's past because it hasn't happened. What matters to me now is absolutely not what's gonna matter to me in nine minutes time possibly, certainly in three months time. So now is all that matters. Does that sort of make sense?
Brian Rowley:No, it definitely makes sense. And I think the interesting part of it is, if we truly live in the moment, there are plenty of warning signs, I would say before those traumatic moments happen. But I think we're so distracted that we don't always pay attention to those. And as a result of that, it takes that very traumatic moment. And the example that you gave, the loss of life, right?
Brian Rowley:Before someone actually makes a change. But I guarantee you that there were plenty of other things that happened prior to that. That could have been moments for someone to pivot where they may not have.
Jez Rose:Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, in commercially, we talk a lot about, I encourage people to have a plan B to come up with what's your plan B. In fact, it was a time when I was going call my business plan B. Then when I moved to The States, I realized it probably wasn't the best business name. And I asked a ton of people in cafes and stuff, I'd lean over and say, Hey, I'm sorry to interrupt you.
Jez Rose:But if I say plan B, what does that like, what's the first thing that comes sort of comes up? And I realised that probably asking young couples that question seemed a bit pointed from a stranger. They was it was as if I was judging their, you know, life dream or During
Brian Rowley:the cafe too.
Jez Rose:And I realized that plan B probably was the best.
Laura Smith:Top winning focus groups at better cafes. Yes,
Jez Rose:with random people. So the thing about this idea of plan B, what happens if it's not gonna work out? Then I tell them to scrap plan A. Because if you've got plan B, why would you go with plan A? Because plan B is look to all the ways that plan A won't work to create a plan that's more solid.
Jez Rose:And if we were more conscious, if we were more intentional, if we were more aware and alert of what was going on moment by moment, I mean, when that study came out to show that 47% of our waking time were on autopilot, I just thought that explains everything. All the road rage explains all of that. The idiots that just do random stuff and you think, what on earth did you do that for? The emails that you think, that wasn't very well worded, or I don't understand what they mean, or things that people say and do, but also our emotional regulation as well, right? So I think whether it's work or home or deeply internal for you, deeply personal, being more intentional just means being more in the present moment, and we get so much more control.
Laura Smith:Jez, let's bring it back to, like, brands. Right? So do you think they most brands are intentional? Do you think that they plan for that plan b, or do you think they spend more time reacting to what's happening around us to then try to get ahead of it? Like, that mental health ad, for example.
Laura Smith:Right? So that was something that we know is happening. So but that could have been reactive because mental health has always been something that's been around us for quite some time, just wasn't discussed as often. So do you think brands that react are the ones that are, like, losing out, or do you think those brands should be getting ahead of it? And if so, do we think that happens more often than not?
Jez Rose:That's a really interesting point. You ever been in a conversation and you go to say something and then you don't say it, but then other people say, no. No. No. Go on.
Jez Rose:Go on. What what are you gonna say? And you say, no. So the moment's passed now. Doesn't matter.
Jez Rose:We overthink being human. And look, risk involves consequences, right? But rarely are they permanent. So do brands lose more if they wait? Yeah, I think they lose more edge, more long term connection with customers or users because we aren't necessarily consciously aware that we are living in the moment, but we are.
Jez Rose:And so if you can directly connect with people in their moment, in the moment, in this moment, I mean, it's how all of really mainstream media works. Right? If you've ever had a press release set up and you've been very excited about your big launch that's happening on Monday, all the press releases have gone out, you've your radio interview set up. And then on Sunday, something catastrophic happens. Well, suddenly your press release is gonna get pushed to right at the bottom and you're done and dusted.
Jez Rose:No one's interested anymore. So we can live like that because brands can think a little more about taking an educated risk. I think we've just got to I have real concerns and issues and quite outspoken about and quite opinionated probably as well, although it comes from the sort of educated background of experience that we are dehumanizing the way that we connect with consumers and customers. We're far too focused on logistics and processes and all that kinds of, making it easy for the brand under the guise of making it easy for customers. But I think, yeah, you lose, I think long term you lose customers.
Jez Rose:There I've said it, Laura. You
Brian Rowley:got your answer. Script it. But just in that sense, right? You know, does emotion actually influence those decisions sort of at those critical times? And I mean, from a business perspective, if you look at that, right?
Brian Rowley:How does a business factor in some of these emotional elements sort of when they're shaping those customer interactions?
Jez Rose:I wrote about this in one of the books, I think it was Fit the Switch. I can't remember which one, but back in The US when television was first released mainstream and invented and offered as this thing, this new thing you can have in your home, it's called a television, you'll love it. The pushback was we don't have time to watch television. Like why would anybody We're not gonna have the time for that. We listened to the radio in the evening and this sound clip is contextualized within the time for what I'm about to say.
Jez Rose:All the men were away being very busy at work, earning the income for the household. The women were at home, keeping the house, raising the children. Nobody had any time to watch television. What a stupid invention. Fast forward to 2015 is the last stat I have, which admittedly is ten years old.
Jez Rose:But when you listen to the stat, you'll know that it's worse now. The average American watched five hours of television a day. So, or we in America, I should say, because that makes it sound like it's bit us and them. Look what happened last time we got into that. You ended up taking the country from us.
Jez Rose:The point is that all the time, emotions are influencing our decision making. Whether we're tired or not tired, or whether we're hungry, or whether we have core unmet needs. Businesses particularly need to think about at what point are they interacting with a customer and how are they likely to be feeling? Because we're driven by emotion, but we're not great at being in touch with ourselves, let alone regulating our own emotion. When we're tired, we likely reach for easy solutions, instant help.
Jez Rose:And that becomes habitual because as a species, we naturally don't want to preserve energy. So then we get led to be lazy by brands. So it's all very well saying, okay, this is my target market, for example, or this is where we're gonna capture our customers. But at what point, like what time in the morning, what are they likely to be wrapped up in at that time that you're connecting with them? What are the stress levels likely to be?
Jez Rose:What time differently perhaps could you, a different time could you connect with those people or a different place? Is it on the move? In which case you've gotta think about traffic and busyness and stimulation, and perhaps it's better that we capture these people when they're at home and relaxed. And those emotional elements are where if you find you were talking earlier about super successful brand campaigns that make an emotional impact. Well, there are sort of classically babies and children, Sorry.
Jez Rose:Babies and animals are always gonna trigger emotions. Cute and fluffy and cute and vulnerable. Right? So those are given. And then you can add into that sick children.
Jez Rose:And then you've got the sort of holy grail of the emotional triggers, right? Those three elements are always gonna trigger customers' needs. Those are the three areas that people give most to charitably. So if you can do it that simply, it just takes a tiny bit more thought, doesn't it? To work out what are these people feeling when they're doing the thing that we want them to be doing.
Jez Rose:And all of the successful brand campaigns do that. If you look at them from a behavioral perspective, they've got that extra edge to them. They've got that extra element that they've thought about.
Laura Smith:Well, that's what was gonna say is, you know, do you think brands know that they're doing that? Do they think that you think that they know that they're they have the ability to escalate emotions or change someone's emotions? Like, yes, they take into consideration potentially the emotions, but do you think they get it? You know, do you think that they really do it for the right reasons, to help play into trying to get a response out of out of consumers or whoever they're trying to attract? Because I think I I get what you're saying.
Laura Smith:They know it's dogs or pets and kids, but do they really understand sometimes when they're putting on a brand campaign for their own benefit, right, trying to drive business? Do they understand what they can actually do and how they can affect consumer behavior?
Jez Rose:They'll say they're aware of it, but they're not. Here's an example. You need customer support for something. You won't find a telephone number because you're pushed to an online chat. If you're lucky, you get to a human.
Jez Rose:If you're really lucky, you get a phone number. What's the first message you hear when you ring customer support? We're experiencing an overwhelming number of calls. No, you're not. You're experiencing the same number of calls you'd always had.
Jez Rose:You're just not employing enough staff. It's as simple as that. So most companies stopped truly caring about customer service a long time ago. There was a massive shift at COVID. And since COVID, it's never changed.
Jez Rose:No one making these decisions has been through the customer journey. That's evident. How does the customer feel is not a question enough organisations ask. I've worked and consulted with 93 of the Fortune 100 businesses. I've spent twenty two years as a behavior advisor for the corporate industry.
Jez Rose:We are sentient beings. There's far too much weight and thinking on customer flow and efficiency, which actually is about taking, sorry, about managing customers easier for the company. It's nothing to do with the customer themselves and not nearly enough consideration on how we're making people feel. So, yeah, I think brands unintentionally escalate emotion, but they don't understand why they're doing it or how they're doing it. But they also have the role to ease that as well.
Jez Rose:It's just that the problem with all of this area, Laura, is that I don't know where Brian's gone. Problem with all of this, Laura, well, It's
Laura Smith:his nap time. This is what I Thanks
Brian Rowley:for waking me up. Sorry. I just got a little a little jazz. Go ahead. Keep going.
Brian Rowley:This is riveting. When I say
Jez Rose:when I say I'd love to say I've missed you. When I say this, I mean psychology, behaviour, all of these slightly more cerebral elements of customer. The problem is, Laura, it's really different. There's nothing tangible. If I say make that orange, that widget, that color, that brand, that whatever, and 9% more people are gonna click on it, right?
Jez Rose:Then you can visually see that, you can see the difference and then you can metrically support it as well. We're talking about feelings and thoughts, they're visceral, right? There's nothing tangible. They're just, you're relying on the hope that you know about that emotion. And so it's difficult.
Jez Rose:You have to wait and businesses aren't very good at waiting anymore. We kind of
Brian Rowley:want
Jez Rose:instantaneous ROI or at least some confirmation about that. So I think that's why we don't see it as much, but my concern is, look what happened to the re offending rate, both in The US and The UK, I have figures for. And the re offending rate is insane, which tells you that when people go to prison, it's not an effective punishment because they carry on re offending. So the system is broken. And why?
Jez Rose:Well, I can tell you that, and any psychologist and behaviourist will tell you why, because the punishment comes way too late after the behaviour. And that big gap there doesn't link the punishment directly with the behaviour. So, you know, if I tripped up an old lady and ran off with her handbag and got punched in the face, it's unlikely I would do that again anytime soon. If I trip up an old lady, run off of her handbag and nine months later, have to spend some time in jail, there's a whole nine months where I've enjoyed my life. Right?
Jez Rose:And the cash and the boiled sweets. So there are issues, I think, linking that the brands have, with linking what's happening in this moment, in this time, and what's the result of it. And that gap there is I think difficult for them to see the point in engaging with anything like emotion or asking about how customers feel. So I think they will blame customer complaints on, I don't know, the process isn't smooth enough or something, but it's not. It's just because you really rile me up when I've got a problem and you're not gonna help me, but you actually make it more difficult for me to find somebody to help me.
Jez Rose:I've gotta go to a bot and then I've gotta ask the bot speak to a human. And then I've got to speak to a human who goes nine minutes of questions. So I need to go, oh, you want a paper month plan? Oh, sorry. We only do the pay as you go.
Jez Rose:You need to call this number instead.
Brian Rowley:But Jez, where do you think the line is between customer experience and emotional well-being, right? Like because there's definitely a line I think that brands sort of hover over, right? Where, okay, we have we're worrying about frustrating aggravation, all of those types of things. But where is that line or is there not a line? We're on a podcast.
Brian Rowley:We've
Laura Smith:got little bit of a I
Jez Rose:don't know how, well, no, I'm gonna be honest. I've decided this year is my year of authenticity.
Brian Rowley:Strap Yeah.
Laura Smith:Shall we get ready to mute?
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Yes. I'm ready. I'm ready.
Jez Rose:So the social media industry had a big wake up call to this, right? Social media is ever evolving. It's new to all of us. It's changing how we think and feel and behave, interact, socialise. And it's a new cause of fear of missing out, FOMO, depression and suicide, right?
Jez Rose:So those are major responsibilities and issues. And therefore the social media industry had to, they were forced to think about emotional well-being. They didn't get a choice of that. Right? Now they didn't intend to create something that would make us feel more depressed and horrible and make our lives for some people difficult, but at the same time, for some people brilliant.
Jez Rose:Now you've got this weird incongruence, right? There's this thing that is as brilliant as it is tragic. But behind anger, if I feel angry or you feel stressed, for example, there are a ton of other emotions like jealousy and sadness and frustration, helplessness, shame, feeling overwhelmed. These are all causes of that anger or stress. We respond to the anger or the stress that the initial thing that we present, but the cause of it is what we need to be addressing.
Jez Rose:So what do we do with those feelings? Well, most people reach outward to resolve or comfort them. We buy things for the alpha brainwave and dopamine here, even though it's short lived, We'll eat comfort foods, we reach outwards, right? We see a whole wealth of marketing that's preying on our emotional needs, making it easier to buy, easier to consume, and therefore easier to cover everything up instead of dealing with our need to rediscover our core unmet needs. So yeah, brands need to take much more ownership of the emotional well-being of their customers if they want to be better people and live more ethically.
Jez Rose:But try telling that to a board of investors who only care about money because they don't understand what truly matters in life and that some of the happiest people alive have nothing. So I know that's quite a sort of a pointed answer, and it's not opinionated, you know, that's sort of fact. It's a little broad, but it is fact. So will they is an interesting question. I suspect not.
Jez Rose:I think we've still got a bit longer for this. We need the equivalent of the social media issue. I just hope it doesn't get to the point that there's this tonne of evidence that suggests that brands or via certain marketing makes people desperately unhappy. And then we've had to cause a lot of pain in order to say, oh, actually, maybe we should do a bit different. But the only thing I don't know about The US, the only thing we have in The UK is the advertising standards agency, agency, but really they regulate sort of over promising or sort of false messaging or something.
Jez Rose:Not necessarily the ethics of, is this the right thing we should be doing? I mean, if you think about it also, look at the sort of trend that we had for years, the misogynistic trend of scantily clad women draped over cars or something to sell the cars to men. Well, it wasn't the sort of emotional well-being that we thought about. It was equality actually, wasn't it? It was, well, isn't that a bit derogatory towards women and derisory?
Jez Rose:And so again, that came from a different perspective to challenge that. So I think it's a really interesting question. Where is the line between customer experience and emotional well-being? And I would argue there isn't one, because if we start separating things as important as emotional well-being, well, then it becomes an other, doesn't it? And it isn't other.
Jez Rose:It's one. The customer's experience is their emotional well-being. Right. Whether it's there or whether or not.
Laura Smith:Sorry to interrupt, but I'm going to. But I know as, like, for my own customer experience perspective, right, if I have a great experience, you know, someone I send an email. I do something. I interact. I want, like, some refund.
Laura Smith:I want something a problem to be solved, and that is solved very seamlessly. I am an happy person, and I'm on my way to do other things in life. Sure. Opposite of that, if it's a really frustrating experience, that could affect my whole day.
Brian Rowley:You know?
Laura Smith:I'm set off in a way. So it's it's what you're saying is a %, I can I can relate as a consumer myself that it doesn't it can really it can really shift my mindset? And being in marketing, of course, you even get more frustrated because you understand how important customer experience is. But as a consumer, I'd agree that it could make me a happier person because I just had a wonderful experience, or it could turn my day around because I just dealt with so much frustration. Mhmm.
Laura Smith:Even though that's in my personal life, but then it brings back in even into my professional life where I've gotta now, you know, be happy with the people I work with and just pretend like that doesn't happen. But it's hard to control, I would say.
Brian Rowley:But I also think the other side to it too is we spend a lot of time focused on experience. But I think when you boil that back to truly get to the root of emotional well-being, I'm not sure that there's a lot of brands that are out there to be honest, that sit there and say, I wonder what the longer term impact of this contact with this customer would actually be. They think about it from the immediacy of will it trigger a buying behavior and not think about the longer term side to things. So I think it's a very different perspective in regards to marketing as a whole that I'm not sure a lot of brands and at every moment think about, or even think about it all, to be honest.
Jez Rose:Yeah, I would agree. And that sort of feeds into a bigger, wider social issue, doesn't it? You know, we're being driven to become actually more selfish. We don't think about us broadly anymore. We think about me.
Jez Rose:What's in it for me? What's the, and that has much wider social and political issues as well. So should they? Yeah, I think they should. Why?
Jez Rose:Because you, I mean, there's an ethical thing. There's all of the good stuff, right? But someone's gonna say, well, that's optional. But then customer service used to be optional for a long time. It was if you've got time, don't forget to smile or say, have a good day or whatever.
Jez Rose:Then of course the rise of power of customers came. We went through that transition of people moving with their feet. All industries became much more competitive due to social media landscapes and the change in commerce. And so now we had greater competition. So people like to work harder for customer attention, let alone customer buying power.
Jez Rose:And so customer service is the obvious thing, as Laura said, let's make people feel great about our brand and also make them feel even better about dealing with us. I think we're in what I would call the used car sales period of consumerism right now. So the thing is when you buy a car, I mean, you're the you're like the Messiah when you walk into a car showroom, aren't you? I mean, they could not be happier to see you. They are like, absolutely.
Jez Rose:Would you like coffee, flowers? Let me be all over you. Lick your ears. I see you've got a bit of wax in there. Let me get in there with the tip of my tongue.
Jez Rose:They're all over. Take your pants off, sir. I'll I'll I'll eye in those. You know, they they could not be, oh, your hands look a little chafed. I've got some moisturizer.
Jez Rose:Come here. Let me give you a little manny. They're all over you. They would do anything to get that car. You drive out of the showroom and something goes wrong with that car, you are the scum on their shoe.
Jez Rose:Like, who the hell when you go in and you will get spat at for coming back. Who do you think you are coming back here? You've got the car, you little Cretan. And that I think is possibly come over a little opinionated there.
Brian Rowley:Just a skosh.
Laura Smith:A little bit? A little bit over the line. Stepped up for the line a
Brian Rowley:few times there.
Jez Rose:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Laura talking about lines.
Jez Rose:Yeah. Yeah. What a deep seated irony. So, but the point is that sort of for me feels like the general temperature check of all experience at the minute. We're desperate to get the customer in at the top end.
Jez Rose:We'll do anything. That lovely brand experience, the marketing, the soft landing, the sale, the discount, the sexy packaging, and then the lights go off. Soon as something happens or you need to speak to, you need to interact with that organization, it is not easy. And you're right, Laura, the ones that stand out, bizarrely, one of them for me is a bank, is an online bank. Phenomenal.
Jez Rose:The last place you would think anybody would be useful. And I think we're in that period for a bit longer until people start again, consumers move for their feet or talk. And so sort of to your point about this notion of, what was your point you were making, Brian? No, about experiences. I think it's important because it directly feeds into customer service and customer experience.
Jez Rose:I mean, they don't know, this is the thing, it's deeply clever psychology this. I'm just trying to think in my head, how comfortable I feel about sharing this because it sort of feels a little, I could understand somebody pushing back and saying, is this sort of deceptive or brainwashing or whatever? But as I'm not being paid for this podcast, which I think I have raised once or twice before, I'll say it anyway. Think, if you know how someone feels at any given time or the risk of how they could feel or how you need them to feel, you can do lots of different things to be able to mould and manage and shape that experience for the better in order to enhance the overall experience they have with you now, but long term, because you ever see like those movies, I'll stop talking in second. I appreciate this is a long answer, but you ever see those movies where they drop something into the water and suddenly everybody loves a brand or it's like sort of those disaster, not disaster movies.
Jez Rose:It's like a, there is a movie I watched, can't think of what it is, but they gave everyone a pill or added something to the water or food or something. And it secretly changed people's brain and made them all love this particular product or something and sort of, you know, brainwash them all to buy it. It is sort of the equivalent of that in so much that we can encourage people to feel differently about something. And they won't know why, but they'll feel much more aligned and safe with that brand. And I think all of everything we've spoken about today comes really back to that word.
Jez Rose:It's about making consumers feel safe.
Brian Rowley:But I think, Jez, and this is a whole other conversation, but I think it does also go back to authenticity. Because I can give you an example. Starbucks just recently went into a mode where they write nice messages on the cups as people are handing them out and there's hearts on them and there's have a great day and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And that works really, really well when the person who's doing it is smiling when they're doing it. Right.
Brian Rowley:But when that same person hands you the cup with the little heart that says have a great day and they grunt at you. Right. It doesn't work. I think you also have to instill this understanding throughout the culture of the organization, not just in the way that you approach it from a marketing perspective, because again, it goes back to, and I know you've talked about this for a long time, but the authentic side to it is also needs to be apparent and needs to come through. Otherwise it just doesn't work.
Jez Rose:Yeah, I would agree. But also, Brian, there's a wider piece there that's interesting for this podcast that I suspect will go global. I've lived in The US now for a year. I've worked here on and off for ten years. In The US, the tipping culture is standard.
Jez Rose:You just do it. It's rude not to tip irrespective of the level of service you get. In The UK and Europe, for example, you earn a tip. I'm absolutely not gonna tip somebody if you just put my food on the table and walk off. But you absolutely will hear, minimum 15% now, even that is kind of sneered out a bit.
Jez Rose:I went into a store the other day and the suggested tipping, it was only three on the till, unless you went to the bother of pressing other started at 20%. And the experience in that store was, I would say substandard. So it's a bit wider, isn't it? It's how we are being shaped. And that's what I mean when I alluded to earlier on this conversation, that there is a wider cultural influence here.
Jez Rose:We are being shaped. Our behavior is being modeled and therefore so is our experience and our emotion as well. It's trying hard and just saying, okay, don't remember to smile at people. I mean, what utter nonsense? It absolutely is about how do I make that person feel?
Jez Rose:But everybody has to be a little bit of a pocket psychologist or a pocket behaviorist, don't they, to better understand how you make people feel differently.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Agreed.
Laura Smith:Okay. It's time to turn up the heat.
Brian Rowley:Wow. Laura just shut you down, Jez.
Laura Smith:Ready to move on. We're moving into the hot seat
Brian Rowley:We lost Joey. Joey's sound asleep. Go ahead.
Laura Smith:We're going in the hot seat seat segment. We're gonna ask you a quick
Jez Rose:It's easy for you to say.
Laura Smith:Take a quick bold stance on something. You already have made already a few quick bold stances, so this is gonna be easy for you. We'll put you on the spot. There's no pressure. Here we go.
Laura Smith:What's one thing brands should stop doing if they wanna build genuine emotional connections?
Jez Rose:Well, I've got seven.
Laura Smith:One thing, Jez. Thing. We know you too well.
Jez Rose:Alright. One. Stop scripting. Stop curating. Be human.
Jez Rose:Be real. It's okay for it to be imperfect. The greatest illusion is that life should be perfect. We did a little bit of research last year and tail end of last year into actually finished in February, sort of this year as well. And what we found was on social media, the posts that got the greatest responses, greatest number of likes, shares, or comments, or saves combined.
Jez Rose:So it's a tricky bit of research to sort of quantify, were those that were off the cuff in the moment, picked up a phone, did a thing, this just happened. Oh, look what someone's doing in the office right now. The scripted, curated, professional looking things got by far the lowest engagement. Why? Because it's not real.
Jez Rose:This is what I mean. The emotional aspect of what we're talking about today is not about whether you make someone laugh, cry, make feel good, whatever. It's about connecting, authentically connecting with somebody now. Yeah. And it's why after twenty two years of doing this job, I'm walking away from it and doing the thing that feels more authentic to me because we only got one life.
Jez Rose:Absolutely.
Brian Rowley:Amazing. Jez, thanks so much for joining us.
Jez Rose:Is that it?
Brian Rowley:That's it. We're done.
Jez Rose:I have a lot more answers here.
Laura Smith:We'll bring you back another episode. Yes, will. Unpaid.
Brian Rowley:Unpaid, yes.
Jez Rose:We're not
Brian Rowley:paying you. I do think though that how brands handle sort of those tough crossroads moments are incredibly valued to them as well as to their audiences. So Jez, thanks. I really, really appreciate your time.
Jez Rose:It's an absolute joy. Thank you.
Laura Smith:Absolutely, Jez. I echo what Brian said. It's been a pleasure. We'd love to spend time with you, but this has been a very interesting conversation and we really appreciate you sharing all your insights with us today.
Jez Rose:Thank you very
Laura Smith:much. And we do want you back someday. We promise we'll bring you back.
Brian Rowley:Laura, I think that's I think there's some really interesting perspective here. Right? Like, I think as we look at this, just I I think a lot of brands and people that are in roles like you and I probably need to spend a little more time thinking about sort of that impact beyond the immediacy of the moment and some of the longer term pieces to it. I know that if I think if there's any brand out there that thinks they're they've got this locked up, we'd love to hear from you and understand how you're doing that. Because I can say being in marketing for many, many years, I think there's work that's still lots of work that still can be done.
Laura Smith:Yeah, I agree. And I think how Jez wrapped it up with the authenticity piece, I see it every day and we try as marketers ourselves is trying to show the authentic content, trying to distribute that content, and we can prove that that does better as Jez said. But sometimes internally as a business, we need to put out other messages, and that's just, you know and those are the very scripted pieces, and it's it's finding that balance and knowing how to really draw people in in the right way. So I think there's a lot here today that really resonates as a marketer and as a consumer myself, and it's just I think we could I think we could even take this conversation further, whether with Jez or not, because I think there's a lot to build off of here.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. And for those of you listening, thanks for joining us. And most importantly, if you like today's discussion, be sure to follow us. And if you want to hear more from Jez and some of the topics he discussed, check him out at thatjezrose.com.
