Beyond the Likes and Follows: What the Best Brands Get Right About Influencer Partnerships
Influencer marketing as we know it has changed tremendously over the past couple of years where it was experimental in nature, and now it's becoming a core part of the media mix. Pros and Comms.
Laura Smith:Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:So as we all know, influencers are everywhere. We see them, we experience them, we follow them. They serve as long term partnerships to some brands, and sometimes they're used as one off campaigns that can just spark buzz. And these moments can leave a lasting impact for brands. In this episode, we're talking with an influencer marketing expert about what works, what doesn't, and how brands can rise above the noise.
Brian Rowley:So I guess before we get started, Laura and I like to have, a little bit of fun conversation, about the topic we're talking about. We're gonna play a little game called name your favorite. So in the spirit of today's conversation on successful influencer activations, you know, we're thinking about some of our favorite influencer campaigns. So Laura, let's start with your favorite brandinfluencer partnership. Why do you think it works so well?
Brian Rowley:What did you like about it? Give me some give me something to think about.
Laura Smith:So I'm gonna answer it probably not on, how you expect me to answer it. I guess I don't really think of it the influencers I follow are not brand related. Well, they may do some work for brands because some of them are clearly getting paid to push their products and things like that. But a lot of the folks I follow, I would say on Instagram primarily, are people that are just very relatable to me. So if I said their name, you may or may not know them.
Laura Smith:Some of them are like, moms in the Boston area near where I live, have a lot of, like, humor infused in what they're talking about. They kind of get my mind off of the day to day. They do push some products that I'm like, oh, that's an interesting outfit or something, but it's not why I'm following them. So as a marketer, right, it probably it probably seems unusual that I'm gonna name, you know, more on the personal level than I am on the professional because that's really where I feel like if I'm spending time scrolling, it's scrolling these individuals that I feel very related, that they're relatable, and that there's some kind of common interest that we have together. It's not the big celebrities that a lot of brands tend to lean on.
Laura Smith:So that's my probably not marketing focused response, but it's more my individual professional response. So what about you though, Brian?
Brian Rowley:But I think that's actually one of the reasons why we're actually doing this, right, is to have that conversation. Because I think sometimes when people think influencer, I think immediately you go to sort of celebrity and sort of that brand association. And I think oftentimes it's not that at all. It's people who are very targeted in a conversation who you respect, who have, you know, who have gained your respect over time because of the conversations that they have. It aligns with what you're thinking.
Brian Rowley:I know for me, you know, I'm somewhat similar to you, but there was one in sort of my career that actually really stuck out and that was in my prior role. We were doing a, the company was actually, a manufacturer of rugged laptops and we were doing a promotion, for one of those. And, we use this guy on YouTube who was very influential in that community. And, you know, it's funny, Laura, when we were getting prepped for this, I went back and just looked at this and you and I had done this together with the RacePoint team. And it's garnered about four and a half million views right now on YouTube.
Brian Rowley:And for that particular company, that was the most we've ever seen, right? In terms of engagement around a product or a product placement or a launch that we were doing. It was just an amazing thing. So like you, I think it's very targeted towards the conversation that we're having and not necessarily associated with any celebrity or specific brand. But that's the part for me today that I'm actually really interested in sharing sort of some of the thoughts with our guests in regards to what are the differences between that, like some of the things that really work.
Laura Smith:Yeah, because I think we've experienced and we're starting to dabble a little bit this year ourselves. And I'm really excited to introduce our guests because there's so much for us to learn as marketers. And I think there's so many different stories that are being told or ways in which they're being activated that I don't know. I'm excited to hear from an expert. So our guest today, a digital media and marketing technology leader with extensive experience in strategic partnerships and the creator economy.
Laura Smith:Our guest advises some of the world's leading brands on their partnership strategies. As vice president of brand partnerships for Captivate, a leading creator marketing platform, she has spent the majority of her career focused on strategic partnerships. So here to help us explore the dos and don'ts of influencer marketing, welcome Joelle Moroney.
Joelle Moroney:Thank you for having me, Laura and Brian. Great to be here.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Thanks for being here. I mean, not to put too much pressure on you, but with that lead up, I think we get right into this. You've got a lot to talk about and we've got a lot to learn from you. So let's jump right in.
Brian Rowley:And I think one of the best places for us to start is probably what in your opinion sort of is that state of that influencer marketing landscape and how have you seen that landscape evolve in the recent years? I think that's a good place just to start our conversation.
Joelle Moroney:Absolutely. And I really like the setup and listening to both of you talk about your favorite influencers and or creators because the ecosystem has changed tremendously from what we know as OG influencers. When I look back over the past few years, I started my career with Ty Ming, Conde Nast, and if you remember Ruth Reischel, who pioneered gourmet, certainly with In style magazine as well as Real Simple, a lot of these platforms have gone digital. And what were celebrities and or editors who experts in their own right in different categories have now evolved. Influencer marketing, as we know it, has changed tremendously over the past couple of years where it was experimental in nature, and now it's becoming a core part of the media mix and an important constituent to all brands and or agencies who are leaning in on reaching different platforms relative to services and products and having different voices.
Joelle Moroney:But at the end of the day, it's all about authenticity. And if they want to have a trusted source and a viable voice within specific communities, they are going to lean into influencers, which is very exciting. And the other facet is when we look at these creators and influencers, they're becoming their own media companies in their own right. Again, go back to the OG of Martha Stewart. Depending on where you sit, she has built an empire for herself and stayed incredibly relevant.
Joelle Moroney:Then you look at Alex Earl, who literally has built her own media empire and is on the front page of sport Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue as well as the Wall Street Journal. So we are in a very exciting time, and the lines between influencer, entrepreneur, media companies are blurring with brands in such an exciting way in terms of looking at building out strategy relative to brand personas and partnerships.
Laura Smith:Yeah. It's so interesting, Joelle, because Brian and I were even talking about that this morning, and you're naming a lot of celebrities. Right? So, like, what's the difference? There's a like, because I think I think of it differently, and Brian, I may or may not, agree on this.
Laura Smith:But there's a celebrity endorse endorsements, like they're doing endorsements for a brand, and then there's influencers. And I feel like some of them because if you, like, actually, which I did, put in ChatGPT today, who were the biggest influencers? I mean, nine out of 10 of them were were famous celebrities. And when I think about going back to what I said at the beginning, like, I think of people who are very regular everyday people who just are content creators that have an audience that, you know, really resonates with with them. So where do you see that where's the line?
Laura Smith:Is there a line? And how do you look at that, the the celebrities versus noncelebrities?
Joelle Moroney:Fair point. And I'll well, let's use Dunkin' for an example because they're here based in Boston as well. They have such a strong brand recognition and obviously can, which they have, enlisted celebrities. You know most of them. And there's a campaign that's going on currently right now with Ben Affleck as well.
Joelle Moroney:Charlie D'Amelio is a perfect example of an influencer that they chose to work with a few years back. But what is really highly recognizable is when you start to work with micro macro influencers to help. So the celebrity, as you mentioned aptly, does help from a spike in awareness and upper funnel metrics and marketing and buzz. But the important integral part is to also keep it real and engage other influencers that might have a smaller following but a much more higher engagement rate with their particular audiences, as well as, in my world, driving action and taking action. So there's a delicate art that every company has to manage and or brand, in terms of where really what their message at points are, what are the audiences they're trying to communicate to.
Joelle Moroney:I look at it as a framework. There's personas, whether it's the actual micro, macro, or mega celebrity talent. And then there's the message points in the narrative that their brands are trying to communicate. And the third element would be the actual platforms that they thrive on. I mean, there are so many there are countless platforms out there.
Joelle Moroney:But then most importantly, what are the KPIs? What are the metrics for success? What are we trying to drive? Is it purely awareness? Then that's where the celebrity mega talent's going to come in.
Joelle Moroney:Is there more engagement conversions, which at the end of the day drives ROI? That's going to also incorporate those micro macro talent influencers that quite frankly resonate so well across generations as well.
Brian Rowley:And that's an interesting point from your perspective. Does that celebrity brand, you know, does that can you achieve authenticity with that? Because for me, I feel like that isn't, you know, when you put it in the perspective of it's an awareness, okay, that, that's true because they have large following. But when you look at like that authentic message coming through, do you, do you think that celebrity can actually pull that authenticity into that brand from a perception perspective?
Joelle Moroney:Fair point. And I do think that that is subjective. Are they genuinely authentically leaning in on that particular service product category. Are they authority do they have an authority voice? I work with highly regulated industries, financial services, for example.
Joelle Moroney:And if you have a Jean Chatsky, or a Susan Orman, and then now the budget niece, Tiffany Aliche, and very sort of experts in their own writing category, then that feels real and it's landing in the right way. But just for the sake of namesake, then consumers are incredibly smart and savvy. They can read right through that. So there has to be a really strong justification for the genuine alignment with that particular partnership.
Brian Rowley:But that's where it's always fallen apart for me, is just really that, you know, you see someone who's endorsing something one minute or an ambassador to a brand one minute and then, you know, you go to a different channel or commercial, right, and they're out there talking about something else and you're like, wait, what is going on here? Like, like, it just doesn't it it it's hard and it's difficult for it to resonate for me. Sorry, Laura. I know you had a comment you want
Laura Smith:talk No. Was just gonna say, like, does Brett does Ben Affleck really like Duncan? Or is he you know, I feel like is he like, when we know
Brian Rowley:he's being guy. Of course he does.
Joelle Moroney:He's a Boston guy.
Laura Smith:I'm a Boston gal, and I don't. So but, you know, I just think about but we know what that mean. We are marketers too. But, like, we know what that you know, to your point, Joelle, that is obviously getting the buzz. Right?
Laura Smith:That's getting all the attention. However, it brings me to the, the one of the women that I follow, an influencer, she also does work for Rub Duncan as well on a on a micro, you know, a scale. So I feel like that does and I'm I'm going to listen to her more than I'm going to listen to Ben, but Ben's gonna drive the attention. Right? So I see it happening.
Laura Smith:So do you see that combination of celebrity and micro working a lot together for brands? Like, combination of to kinda think of the funnel?
Joelle Moroney:Yes. And often because, again, getting into the metrics and the success rate of the campaigns and these monumental investments, often it's hybrid in terms of, okay, we're looking to drive awareness. Let's get the macro celebrity mega superstar, but then let's also include other aspects to the brand and feed this funnel with people like your friend who's at Dunkin' has been there because you're more apt to actually literally go to the local franchise and or engage with the drink of choice that she may have as a namesake. So more often than not, it's about alignment with the different tiers, if you will, in terms of reach and the follower count. That's how we define these different levels.
Joelle Moroney:But it also is the onus in what I do with the work that I do is that we are also looking at exclusivity, making sure that they're not turning one moment to another brand and the next so that there's genuine affinity that's part of all of this investment to have authenticity in the category. But to be fair, again, consumers are super discerning in terms of where there feels like a proper alignment versus just signing a deal for the sake of vanity metrics.
Laura Smith:Like, if the influencer may not know the brand. So how do you build that, like, authentic partnership, you know, to get them up to speed? And maybe it's a similar to any other kind of activation where you have to just make sure people are up to speed on it. But, you know, there are definitely relationships, I'm assuming, where they're new to the brand, this influencer, to and have never worked with them or maybe never used the product or service. So how do you create that partnership that does feel authentic, you know, probably over time?
Joelle Moroney:Right. I think that's super important, though, to properly vet the influencer. That's not a one size fits all by any means, especially when we're doing pretty significant engagements. When we're working with influencers, this is four to six, eight weeks, and continue on from there. It depends on what type of activation, right?
Joelle Moroney:Not just a standard post, but are they at the event? Are they doing other sort of brand ambassadorships? And that does have to land well and be properly vetted. Otherwise, it does feel disingenuous. That said, let's say there's a new product and or service in the marketplace, then they're going to provide a good experience for that influencer to have an opportunity to engage with the brand and determine whether or not that is a fit as well, and it works both ways.
Joelle Moroney:I'm used to dealing with Fortune 500 companies, so most of the work that we do, influencers are quite familiar with the brands, but on a more sort of grassroots level, I get what you're saying. And I'm thinking of different examples where, of course, there's sampling, there's experiences, but making sure that there's an education and a why behind the brand. Otherwise, that won't land in a way that's going to be, again, sincere and having a trusted voice in that particular engagement.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, mean, we see an extensive amount of background research that sort of goes into the whole vetting of influences, right, to make sure they are the right brand fit, right, and to avoid any risks of reputation. But in some cases the potential downside, you know, scare brands into avoiding partnerships altogether. So at what point should brands take that risk?
Joelle Moroney:Right. You bring up a very good point. There are so many variables to consider and there's perhaps the higher risk is not doing anything at all. I believe wholeheartedly, especially in highly regulated industries, there is a lot of sensitivity to brand safety guidelines, especially when we're looking at different types of products and services that have to adhere to specific guidelines in healthcare with ISI, certainly in financial services. But the fact of the matter is, properly vetting these influencers is critical in working with a influential powered by Captivate, we are part of the pubicist, looking carefully to properly vet the demographics, the data, and making sure that they are safe and fitting within the guardrails of the brand safety that we set forth.
Joelle Moroney:The goal is taking a smart risk and making sure that, again, there are clear contracts, there are clear brand briefs, that the influencers themselves are properly vetted. That's where the onus is on the companies that we're engaging with and the platforms to do that. Ultimately, you want to have cultural relevance and also act at the speed of culture, which then provides that interesting nuance of balancing risk with the potential upside.
Laura Smith:Is AI playing a role now in helping to identify influencers?
Joelle Moroney:Of course. Great question. And it had previous to all the hype that we've heard over the past couple of years. Just like the word data insights had been used often, so is AI now, and that is definitely a critical component to the work that we do. Not only proprietary AI, but also leveraging very sophisticated systems in order to identify the right influencers, including discovery, right, in terms of text logo recognition within their feeds.
Joelle Moroney:It's a very sophisticated technology that we use to do that. Again, a lot of it is properly vetting and discovering the right influencers to fit and leveraging that AI to do that at scale.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, I think the vetting side too is an important one, right? Because as you start to look at AI as a whole, you know, become more and more difficult for any of us to actually tell who actually said something that's out there because there are all these different technologies that are out there. I would think even vetting becomes more challenging because you're now dealing with potential AI influenced voiceovers that are out there versus what's actually being said by someone. So I think it even becomes more and more challenging.
Laura Smith:Are there moments, like, when you're doing this, this is what you do every day. So I guess, is there is there a moment in time when you're working with a brand where where you realize this influencer should be part of that media mix basically? You know? And sometimes because I'm sure some some clients that, you know, don't use influencers, as part of the larger publicist network, but, obviously, there are points in time when you are recommending that as part of their strategy. So, like, what are those moments?
Laura Smith:Is is there, like, launch moments? Is there just when a client comes and says, we need greater awareness? You know, like, are there tipping points, I guess, where your your team's brought in?
Joelle Moroney:Right. Well, I think a fair way to look at this too is there's always a north star. Right? There's always that sort of these are ideal influencers or creators that we would like to align with, and then often they may or may not be affordable, accessible, or have exclusivity rights. We can find and do some predictive modeling and do look alikes and see other influencers that may fit within that particular category.
Joelle Moroney:Within our technology, we have over 15,000,000 influencers that we would have access to. So there will always be that let's see if we can get said particular creator, in the event that that is not accessible, then what other options do we have to be very careful and calculated about the way in which we approach that. Again, it gets into what categories, what verticals, what areas. Let's look at the World Cup, for example, in FIFA. A lot of companies are starting to lean into different types of sponsorships and or athletes.
Joelle Moroney:Sports marketing is absolutely enormous right now. NIL, we haven't even touched on, but that's something that a lot of brands are leaning into, and there are so many different ways to set up separate segments to have conversations with you about what that looks like as well.
Laura Smith:Yeah. That makes sense. So because it's not it's not a one size fits all, you know, in how you think about it. So obviously, you're doing it in a very sophisticated manner as to how to identify those opportunities.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. We always, you know, spend a lot of time obviously in marketing roles focusing on the metrics of success. So I guess one of the questions I am curious about is just sort of what is the priority metric for determining the success of an influencer campaign? Like how do you go about determining whether that's working or not? Obviously there's awareness like you mentioned, but there are other factors too.
Brian Rowley:So how do you judge that? How does a company look at that and say that really worked?
Joelle Moroney:Well, again, that would be subjective based on the company specifically, right, in terms of the product and service, but overall you wanna make sure that there is impact. And often companies and brands will have their own benchmarks of what they deem success, and often those are, as you pointed out, different types of KPIs, we call them key performance indices, and looking at whether it is awareness and or driving engagement or action and or conversion. It's not just the reach or the scale of the audience a brand might have or a creator in this instance may have, but it's more about what action are we driving, what are the specific KPIs that we're looking to address. Metrics for success vary by every campaign, by every program and or partnership. It depends on the objective, but at the end of the day, you want to make sure that there is what we have with organic posting with creators working with their different particular platform channels, But then there's also the amplification that is a paid media strategy that has more guaranteed ROI that will play into the metrics for success as well.
Laura Smith:And it's interesting. I feel like without without, like, putting out, like, hanging our dirty laundry, if you will. But for us, it's it's interesting because we haven't really us at BrightSign, Ryan and myself, and the team, we haven't really we've dabbled a little bit in the influencer space, someone in within the industry that's very close into AV and really working in certain events and things like that with us, which has been great because it's a known face, a known entity. She has her own brand herself, and so that's worked. But the one thing we're kind of struggling with now or trying to identify is that we need to get to new audiences, people that don't know who BrightSign is.
Laura Smith:Right? And so some of that's hard because some of these people, like, they're tech influencers, I guess, I would say, more broadly tech influencers. But some of those folks don't even know who BrightSign is and what our technology does. So, like, we're having a little bit of this battle. In 2026, we really we do wanna branch into the space because we feel like, again, to get to net new audiences.
Laura Smith:How do people the people that know us love us. People that don't know us don't know to love us. So I guess if you were to give us a little advice on that approach because, you know, it's it's yes. We can train them on the product, but we've also had some initial conversations, and some folks are not they're like, don't think my audience would this would resonate. So how do you how do we, as like a smaller I mean, a smaller brand in the sense of, like, we're a pretty niche industry, but the brand is many places.
Laura Smith:How do we think about that? Because we don't have the big bucks to spend on celebrity, but we're trying to figure out and navigate that level of, like, you don't want them so close in because those people their audiences know us already, but branching out a little further. And this is, like, definitely getting free advice. But I'm just curious because it's why we haven't it's why we haven't moved forward, to be honest, because we're struggling with that balance.
Joelle Moroney:Yeah. And and fair. I also think it's important to delineate the importance of the creator for is this business to consumer or is this business to business? There are different ways to set up these programs for success and or partnerships because you brought up an important point. You don't want to have an audience that's not going to resonate and or be at the end of the day your end user.
Joelle Moroney:And I think that's a very important component to it. It's like any other type of media. There will be an investment required to do that. And for sure, if there are niche micro influencers who are heavily leaned into your space and experts or have an affinity for your platform, then they would be a trusted source and worth investment to do that. But again, when you look at consumer businesses, it's a very different model in different sizes.
Joelle Moroney:But a pilot is always a good idea just to test, iterate, and learn and see if it works. It's certainly a very affordable way to get very strong content that you can leverage for what we say O and O channels, owned and operated channels, for CTV, out of home, for recruitment, for websites. That's where we find a lot of efficiencies in the content, and it's worth the investment to spend doing that much more so than other media mix channels.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Yeah. Now we're in. We just need to really figure out that strategy, but this is why this conversation is so, you
Joelle Moroney:know, can talk offline.
Laura Smith:Right.
Brian Rowley:Right. But I would say, Laura, that one of the things too is I think there is this, and Joelle, think there's this perception, right, to get into this influencer market. It is a pretty significant investment. And if you are an organization such as ours, right, that does have a limited budget, does it actually make sense to do those, like one video clip or a social post with someone who's a really powerful influencer? Like, is that worth it from an ROI perspective?
Joelle Moroney:Yeah. You said it right that you could effectively get use all of your budget for one said influencer, but that the real question is the community engagement and having other creators who may not have as strong of a following that would help to reinforce the the minute message. Message. And my My advice in that situation would be, again, what are you trying to accomplish? Who are the audiences that you're trying to reach?
Joelle Moroney:And really looking at do you want that single moment? But more often than not, you would want to have sustainable momentum and even an always on campaign situation, which means reaching out to those micro mid tier influencers who could provide that value in a longer term, sustainable way.
Brian Rowley:Makes sense. Makes sense.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Think the micros where we where we will lean more towards, Brian, at least for the the pilot the pilot like Joel's talking about. Yeah. Baby steps, Joel. Baby steps.
Joelle Moroney:Yeah. Baby steps.
Brian Rowley:One step at a time. One step at a time. Well, Joel, lucky for you, Laura and I like to do this thing called our hot seat segment. And I know this will be a little surprise for you, but you're gonna have fun. I promise.
Brian Rowley:For our hot seat today, what we wanna do is we wanna ask you for your favorite influencer fail. So what's the worst influencer campaign you've seen? I don't wanna put you in a really bad spot because this is what you do for a living, but what's the worst one you've seen and what is the partner what about it, you know, itself didn't actually work or live up to any potential hype?
Joelle Moroney:Okay. Wow. This is a difficult one and for sure a delicate one, especially in the political environment that we are in. I'm giving some thought here over this past year. I think for me, the authenticity that we keep talking about is imperative.
Joelle Moroney:And for me also personally and professionally, having social impact is super important. And when a brand I I I guess what comes to mind would be I'm thinking of Poppy Soda, where they did an influencer vending machine stunt, if you will. I I feel that there was some backlash for those of you who may not know. Poppy Soda is the prebiotic soda brand, and they did a Super Bowl spot with Soda Thoughts, where they had full sized vending machines going to, gosh, I think it was over 32 influencers. And they were hosting parties, they were doing an unboxing and unveiling, and bear in mind that this was for a wellness audience that cares about sustainability and about their community.
Joelle Moroney:For me, that was just being it's optics and authenticity. You have to be very mindful of that. It didn't land well because of the extravagance, not just for the influencer, but for the notion of donating these vending machines that were stocked with the poppy soda and how that may have been better served with, the community, whether it's schools, hospitals, looking at donating these to environments that would benefit from the soda themselves versus just the influencers doing this. And I think that's where an influencer moment would have served the community in a different light. But again, it's also about the way in which you can rebound from these backlashes too.
Joelle Moroney:So there was a lot of conversation about that over q one, and a lot of brands were leaning in and paying attention to it. I look at, influencers like, Ashina Malwani, who I've done some work with previously, who leverages her platform for social good. And for example, she can go on to one of her TikTok platforms and or do a live feed and donate her time for the American Heart Association to lend a personal family story, engage with her audience to do that, and have consumers and or audiences lean in and vote with their wallet about a social cause that is near and dear to the influencer's heart. So there's a way to do this, but really not to be very mindful of the community, the brand, the audiences, and how that ultimately is gonna land.
Laura Smith:That's an interesting one. I've never heard that now, obviously No.
Brian Rowley:I haven't heard it either.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Google. Yeah. I'll be definitely looking into that, but that's fascinating. But it does feel like it's everything we talked about wrapped up into a good example as to why something may not work and when to put, you know, an influencer strategy in place.
Laura Smith:So that's great. So it wasn't so bad of a hot seat, Joelle. Right?
Joelle Moroney:That's right. There are countless other examples that I choose not to indulge in that have happened as of late. Well,
Laura Smith:Thank you so much, Joelle. It is so great having you on. Feel like we have learned. You are a wealth of knowledge. I think we could talk about this more offline for sure because I just love to pick your brain, but we really appreciate you spending time with us today.
Joelle Moroney:Thank you so much for having me. Great to meet both of you. I appreciate the time.
Laura Smith:There's just the brands that Joelle's working with. First of I wanna, like, dig into those more with her because that is fascinating. Like, understanding when the awareness piece works, when clients or, you know, customers, brands, whatever, are good with that, and then how they use the combination of the micro and the celebrity. Like, that to me was a little bit more interesting to say, like, okay. I can see that now.
Laura Smith:Because if you have to point to certain ROI, you've got that balance working in, you know, across the funnel. So I find that I find that approach to be to be very interesting as she was talking through that because I just don't I don't know if I you see that or you think of that as a as a strategy right off the bat, especially for someone like us who can't really afford the larger influencer celebrity ones.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I think this is an interesting it's a more much more complicated topic than I think when we started this getting into, I ever thought it would be. And and, you know, just in this half hour, we've learned a ton. I think one of the things that's always interesting is we go back to the authenticity point, right? Making sure that no matter what you're doing, it's authentic.
Brian Rowley:But I also, I think that the understanding where, which is much of the investment that we do in marketing, where it hits and what impact it has at what point in funnel is important. And you tend to look at like influencers being one thing, but it can also resonate in a bunch of different points within that funnel. So there's a lot of really good points in here, that I definitely, hadn't thought of prior to today. So I'm glad we did this.
Laura Smith:And perfect timing as we're going into 2026 planning.
Brian Rowley:Exactly.
Laura Smith:Well, thank you everyone for listening. And most importantly, if you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us. And if you wanna hear more from Joelle Moroney, you can find her on LinkedIn.
