From Noise to News: What Journalists Wish Marketers Knew
If you're gonna call yourself a trade journalist, you have to do at least a little bit of journalism and and exercise a little bit of skepticism or answer ask and answer some questions about why should anybody care about this?
Brian Rowley:Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:And I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And today Laura and I are covering sort of what it takes to engage media's attention. You know, we all like to work with media, but how do we get them actually to want to work with us? And we're fortunate enough today to be joined by a journalist who's pretty much seen it all. Hundreds of pitches, countless campaigns, and quite honestly, isn't afraid to tell us what lands and then what flops. And to be honest, can be viewed as, I wouldn't say difficult, but overly honest at times when really he's actually, you know, he he calls it as he sees it, which I think is something that we probably need to see a little bit more of in the space that we're in.
Brian Rowley:But what makes something newsworthy is something that we actually want to dig into. Why do most brand stories sort of miss the mark? And how do we get media to actually get engaged with us versus just reposting press releases? And at the end of that, it really boils down to companies having a better relationship with media. And I guess if that resonates with you, then you're actually in the right place.
Laura Smith:Before we bring on today's guests, we're gonna kick off with something we call overhyped or worth the hype, the media edition. So we're gonna toss out some PR marketing trends, especially the ones we know journalists deal with all the time. We'll talk about if they're completely overhyped or actually worth the buzz. Some of these might hit a little too close to home, so you've been warned. Alright.
Laura Smith:Here we go. I'll kick off, Brian. AI generated press releases. Overhyped or worth the hype?
Brian Rowley:Completely overhyped. Completely overhyped.
Laura Smith:I feel like though you need AI to help, but it shouldn't just be an AI an AI driven
Dave Haynes:Agree.
Laura Smith:Okay. Influencer brand collab announcements.
Brian Rowley:I don't know. I mean, I think it depends on the influencer, to be honest with you. I I think if the influencer is aligned with the brand and it can appear authentic, then I think I'm okay with it. But if you're just pulling an influencer out there that doesn't really resonate with the brand or what the brand goals and accomplishments are, then I would say that it's it's overhyped.
Laura Smith:Okay. Overly polished thought leadership.
Brian Rowley:Wait. Hold on. You didn't give your opinion. What was your thought?
Laura Smith:I agree. I agree. I think my gut says worth the hype, honestly, because I feel like if it is the right match, and I was thinking of those, like, solid kind of activations versus ones that are really just performative. So I would say worth the hype. Okay.
Laura Smith:If done well.
Brian Rowley:If done well. Yeah. That's the caveat.
Laura Smith:Okay. Overly polished thought leadership with no edge.
Brian Rowley:Overhyped completely.
Laura Smith:100%.
Brian Rowley:But I think on that one, there's a difference between having an edge just to have an edge and actually having something that's worth talking about that has a bit of an edge to it. Like, it's very different. Some people try to create the edge and it feels forced. And I think when you do that, then I think that's actually really a problem. But I think if the edge can be there and it can be there just in in normal context, then I I think it's probably, you know, the over polished part is the piece that I think I have the biggest problem with.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I think it has to be authentic. That's all. Right? It has to authentic to that person.
Laura Smith:If that person doesn't have an edge, then it would be off base. But if they've got an edge or they have a perspective that, you know, kind of like, will put in question a topic, then I think that that that's it it feels more natural.
Brian Rowley:Yeah.
Laura Smith:Okay. Launching a podcast just to say you have a podcast.
Brian Rowley:Completely overhyped. And I think just step back for a second on this. Right? Think about the amount of time we have talked about having a podcast and the work that we put into this actually just to make sure that it was relevant, making sure that, you know, we had something that we felt we could offer to a group or an industry that was not just, you know, the fact that, oh, Brian and Laura, by the way, wanted to have a podcast, right? It wasn't about that.
Brian Rowley:It was how do we add insights and value? And I think there's a lot, I mean, I don't know that everybody realizes how much work goes into a podcast, but if you do it well, and and the jury's still out whether or not we're doing this well, but the reality of it is if you do it well, it takes a lot in order to get there.
Laura Smith:Agreed. Okay. Trendjacking every national quote unquote day on social media.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Overhyped. 100%.
Laura Smith:Overhyped. Yeah. 100%. Events with no hook beyond we're back.
Brian Rowley:It's actually kind of interesting because I think actually when we had our conversation with Alesia Hendley not too long ago, and we talked about sort of events as a whole, she was like, make sure you can have sort of that Instagram moment. I think that's an important thing and and not necessarily just, you know, oh, I need a selfie on Instagram, but something that's actually worth it that people would actually want to make something about it. So so for me, I think without the hook, think completely overhyped.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Great. Okay. Last one. I put you in the hot seat basically for this, by the way.
Laura Smith:Okay. Throwing AI authentic or purpose driven in everything into everything. So anything.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. It's it's like we're an innovative company. Like, hate when if someone says they're an innovative company, they're not innovative. Like, if you're throwing around the AI message too much or purpose driven, then, I mean, the reality is is if you have to state it and people can't figure out your value on their own, then you're over hyping
Laura Smith:it. Even though I just used the word authentic about three minutes ago. Yes. Okay.
Brian Rowley:We'll let we'll let fly this time.
Laura Smith:The fun's over.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Fun's over. I guess now that we've challenged the status quo, right? I guess it's the perfect time to bring someone in who really knows like what cuts through the noise. And today's guest is a journalist known for telling it like it is or having a shop by for what actually makes a story worth covering.
Brian Rowley:And he started out in daily news, spent a long career in newsrooms and eventually turned his frustration and buzzword heavy quote unquote thought leadership into respected voice in the digital scientist space. One would say one that is actually very much drives a lot of the decisions that companies make. He's very influential in this space. And what began sort of as a side project has become a must read industry news and analyst site. One that pulls sort of, you know, doesn't really pull a whole lot of punches and doesn't do PR like fluff, right?
Brian Rowley:He's known for being brutally honest and for shining a light on the stories that actually matter while calling out ones that don't. And if your press release is all fluff and no substance, he's actually not the person to let that slide. So we're excited to welcome the now quote unquote retired founding editor of Sixteen Nine, Dave Haynes. Dave, welcome.
Dave Haynes:Thank you.
Laura Smith:Great to have you, Dave. So Dave, let's get into the fun part of the conversation. So you've seen thousands of pitches. What makes you stop scrolling and actually pay attention to one of them?
Dave Haynes:If they're not using boilerplate language, that's a good start. If if it's a brand x, a world leading provider of is pleased to I'm already falling asleep, I don't care. It's unfortunately rare when get press releases or pitches where it's immediately contextual. You immediately understand why I should care about this. This company has done this thing, which will allow this to be done X amount faster or lower costs or streamline this or something like get to the damn point right away and that's still quite rare to come across.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, it's interesting, Dave, that you call that out because you know, one of the things that I always, it always drives me crazy when you read press releases and it's always like, you know, biggest or the best or this. And it's always like until this press release launches and then someone else is gonna be the biggest and the best. So, like, is that really the point of this that you're really trying to call out Because it's only as good as the time before the release hits or someone pays attention to it and does it on their own. So I mean, I agree with you. I think there's a lot of I don't know if I would call it sloppy, but I would say that just things that people I don't think really they're they're more driving towards the needs of the individual business versus the individual needs of a market that they're trying to target.
Laura Smith:Dave, do you think that people are tailoring their pitches to you, Dave? Or do you feel like that people are just pitching 10 reporters or journalists, and they're just saying the same thing to everybody? But you feel like it's that one to one?
Dave Haynes:I think there's two different constituencies. People within the ecosystem that I moved in for many many years. There are certainly a handful of marketers or public relations people who know how I did things or how I do things and will kind of tune it accordingly. And I've even given them a bit of a recipe. Just you know, here's this stack of things, this is what I need you to tell me.
Dave Haynes:When did this start? Who's doing it? How much did it cost? What technically are you using? What was the return out of it?
Dave Haynes:All those sorts of things. And there's been two or three, there was one company in particular where they just copied and pasted that and appended each of the questions with their answers to it, which was awesome. And for the most part, would use their stuff because I got it. But there's an awful lot of, I would say the majority are broadcasting it out to whoever and throwing it out the wall and seeing what sticks, that kind of mindset.
Laura Smith:Yeah, because making it that easy for people though, feel like that's, you know, wouldn't that be great if everyone said this is the type of information I want and this is how? Instead of, I feel like there's so much time probably that people are drafting up their pitch to be kind of fluff and trying to get your assuming to how to get your attention. So that's, you know, a pretty a pretty novel idea that you were able to kinda outline that and get people you get what you want, and then you still have to you still don't have to write about it if it's not interesting to you, but at least you're getting the information you want.
Dave Haynes:Yeah, there's a pretty big disconnect, I think, in most technology companies in that the people who are doing the public relations, the press release pushes and everything else, tend to be junior within a company or in a lot of cases, they're not even in that company. They work for an agency. And they don't know anything about the industry. And the people who then review what they write read it and go, well, I guess that's how these things are done and they approve it. And the, there's oftentimes the people who don't know anything about the industry are taking their cues from the technologists who started the company.
Dave Haynes:Quite often a CEO at a small company is a technologist first an engineer and is in love with his or her stuff and wants to see all the features and specs and kind of skips right on by, okay, what would this actually mean to the buyer or to the reader? So it's not that often when you get a company that kind of gets together and thinks us through and goes, and figures out, okay, who's the audience? What would they care about? And how do we tune the message to them? More often than not, it's just, there's a formula that we were taught in public relations school to do it.
Dave Haynes:This is the formula that's been done for the last forty years. The only thing that's changed is a bit of the distribution methodology where it's not fax machines, it's now the internet and email. I've been reading press releases since 1979 when I got into the newspaper industry. So I've been seeing it for almost fifty years. And the structure and everything else has not changed with the exception of adding like social media links, adding images and maybe video in some cases.
Dave Haynes:But the core structure is the same as it was all that time ago. It's not because it's great, it's just because that's how it's taught and it's always been taught.
Laura Smith:It's so interesting because so many things evolve, like so much has evolved, especially like we're in technology. Like, things evolve and advance. That's so interesting that because you're right. It has not changed. It is so formulaic.
Laura Smith:Mhmm. And, personally, I'm like people, like, I don't know. Someone sneezes, have to write a press release. Like, all these press releases over not even news Yep. A lot of the time.
Laura Smith:So but you're you're right. Like, will someone ever change the game and and change it up? I don't know. I mean, they haven't done it
Dave Haynes:Well
Laura Smith:for a long time.
Brian Rowley:I was gonna say too, though. The other thing too, is, you know, it's it's not just the way of presenting it through press release, but it's actually to your point Dave, really understanding your audience. So like, I mean, that seems to me like a really simple fix, right? It doesn't seem like that's that, you know, because we look at, okay, these mistakes are being made, right? They've been happening for years.
Brian Rowley:So why isn't it changing? And mean, if the answer is that there's, you know, a format that's taught that says X, Y, and Z, but why isn't someone changing that? Because it's not, honestly, it's not working. It's not forcing, I would say businesses to be at their best, right? It's almost like a check the box to get this done versus really adding value into the industry.
Dave Haynes:I think sometimes too, it's also that it's a very junior position in a lot of companies. It's even a position, you know, a lot of cases it's just freelanced out and that, you know, the chances are even lower that they're going to understand the industry.
Laura Smith:What advice would you give a marketer? Like, So press releases aren't going away. I think they can become they can decrease probably in a lot of companies and industries. But what advice would you give a marketer if you were today, like, one of those junior people about how to write a good press release?
Dave Haynes:I have encouraged a few companies to figure out some way to be on conference calls, or even go to sales meetings with the customer facing salespeople, and just sit there like a fly on the wall, and listen to what's being discussed, or what's being asked. You get much closer to what the actual customer need is, than you're ever gonna get from the CEO or the VP sales or whoever, in a lot of cases, because you're hearing their pain points, and you can start to shape your messaging according to those pain points, instead of, here's our, you know, our latest bells and whistles in version 5.2.3b. People don't care about that. They don't like, what's this gonna do for my business if I buy this from you?
Laura Smith:Yeah, because it's almost like chest beating moments, right? Like the company has a chance to just talk and tell themselves, which is just the opposite of what the end customer really cares about.
Dave Haynes:And so many press releases, again because it's so formulaic, they will invent quotes, and the CEO of each of the participating companies is thrilled, pleased, delighted, excited, couldn't be happier. Nobody cares. Yep. Absolutely nobody cares. It's rare when you'll come across a press release, we'll say, we did this because this will do this.
Dave Haynes:It's directly, this goes directly to what we were hearing from our customers. We knew we had to fix it or we knew we had to enhance it to stay current and then get it from a customer saying, this is freaking awesome that they did this. Yep. Maybe not freaking awesome, but you know what
Laura Smith:I mean.
Dave Haynes:that would be notable.
Laura Smith:Well, you'd pay attention to that.
Brian Rowley:It's interesting in a role that I had, one of the KPIs that I had was the number of press releases that I actually issued in the period of time. And I was just like, what? I mean, literally, Dave, it would have made you just spin in a circle because it was like the craziest stuff. So and so is now this person within the organization. Well, what do you care about that for?
Brian Rowley:Right? Like, I mean, there's other ways for us to do that, but still let's stay on press releases for a second because it seems to strike a nerve here with all three of us. Right? I guess the question I have is what if any responsibility do you think media has to start to sort of filter some of this noise and push back on this? Like, I mean, I know you would push back, right?
Brian Rowley:But let's be honest, there's a lot of colleagues of yours that are out there that just do exactly what we said, right? They copy and paste the press release, they issue it out and then someone's happy and they move on. So like, do we think there's a responsibility here for there to be, you know, the media to actually filter some of this a little bit more and take a better approach towards it?
Dave Haynes:Yeah, there absolutely is. There are some competing sites where they will clearly tag and just say, this is a press release and they just run it verbatim. But in a lot cases, they will run a press release and put a byline on it and change virtually none of it.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Yeah. You the copy paste a lot. You know, it's like the easiest thing for them to do. And and I think sometimes it's like, okay.
Laura Smith:That's is that a win? You know? They're just taking it and just re you know, reposting it. So I do think you've done a great job if you don't do that, which makes sense because I think a lot of times I mean, how many press releases you get over the, you know, over the fence, you're not gonna rewrite all of them because you only pick the ones that you think are interesting. Right?
Dave Haynes:Well, in a given day, I would get probably three, four hundred emails. And of those, maybe forty, fifty would be things I could potentially write about. And maybe one or two, I would actually get through the bullshit filter, so to speak. And then I would spend the time and just say, this is interesting and here's why it's interesting. And here's why you should care about it.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. But I mean, we've been in fairness, we have been on the receiving end of a phone call from you that says, you know what? What exactly are you trying to say here? Right. I mean, in fairness, we have been there.
Brian Rowley:And you know what? I appreciate that because I do think that that's important because we do sometimes get as marketers within a business very caught up in what's important to us versus what's important to those that are picking this up. And I mean, I know personally, I appreciate it. And I'm sure others would, too. I necessarily look at this if that pushback happens that we've talked about this, right?
Brian Rowley:Some people say that you can be tough. And I've always looked at and said, is it tough or is it honest? Because I'd rather take honest any day. And I think that that's what helps us sort of grow the markets that we're all in and also, you know, just do a better job of what audiences are looking for. So, you know, it's really kind of an interesting perspective.
Dave Haynes:Well, I I think a lot of people also just operate in their own bubble, you know, because they're they're around this stuff all day and you you start to forget that not everybody understands what you're going on about.
Laura Smith:Yeah. It's like we talk to ourselves. I say that sometimes when I'm like reading something. We're talking to ourselves. No one else is gonna know what we're talking about.
Laura Smith:We're we're not speaking their language or speaking our language. So I totally agree that we can get caught up on that. As marketers, we have to challenge ourselves to not do that and challenge people internally. Know, Brian, we have that happen all the time when, you know, we're thinking about, like, messaging and how do we talk about something? It's like, this is the way don't whatever you're saying doesn't make sense.
Laura Smith:But, you know, to us, because we're on the outside, we're not in we're not an engineer, for instance. So, yeah, as marketers, that's kind of our job is to make sure we're not talking to ourselves as a company. Yeah. But you just said something about the bullshit filter, so I'll just say it too. Why not?
Laura Smith:Bleep bleep. So you're not shy about calling BS. We know that. But what PR or marketing trends feel especially performative or pointless right now? Like, what what is truly BS?
Dave Haynes:Throwing AI into everything I think is nonsensical at this point. But if you were not working with AI, you're nuts. But I think in order to get any resonance with the ecosystem, you have to explain what you're doing and why it will make a difference to your business, whether you're a reseller, a solutions provider, or an end user. We've done this, which will take all this work out of the equation. There's an interesting company, a startup in Boston called Netspeak that I've written about and talked about quite a bit.
Dave Haynes:And they're using AI just to make network operation centers more efficient. So when they get an inbound call and it says this, this light is flashing and if it's not something that's overly familiar to them, they can go into their AI agent and it'll, it'll, you know, in seconds, sift through all the trouble tickets, all the archival stuff and say, it's likely this. So something that might have taken twenty minutes to flip through things to figure out what the hell is this? It just gets you an answer like that. So the idea is you can do a lot more with the same team that you have, which is incredible.
Dave Haynes:So those are the things that really matter as opposed to, you know, we're using ChatGPT to do something that everybody else is doing already and like big deal.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I think the AI thing is interesting because I do think your point is really one that people should wake up to. If you're not using it, then you need to jump on because it's here, it's going to stay. But I also think that it's as clear as can be when people put stuff out that is a 100% just AI written and they haven't gone back to make sure that it aligns with their business or the messaging and is somewhat in their voice. It's a great found place to start a foundation for things.
Brian Rowley:And I think as we look at it from a marketing perspective, because to your point, like efficiencies within business, I mean, I think it's brilliant at that. I mean, it will save hours of work and being able to do that even in a marketing role. Right. Like AI can help you in terms of creating flows and all of that information in half the time that it would take you to do it on your own. But it's just a foundation.
Brian Rowley:And I think if we can't lose sight to that. And I think that's something that I think a lot of people do. Dave, if you could rewrite the rules of how brands communicate with media, what would be the number one rule?
Dave Haynes:Stop talking about yourself and start talking about what this means to the buyer and get to that point very, very quickly.
Brian Rowley:That's really, I think we can end this podcast at this. I think that's really quite honestly. No, I think it's great advice because I think we spend so much time talking about things that people don't care about. Like talk about the things that are important to them. You're just here to help facilitate that conversation.
Brian Rowley:And I don't think enough of us do a good job of that.
Dave Haynes:Yeah. And the big empty statements about who you are and you're the biggest and so on. Yes, you have to have that validation in there somewhere, that's useful. But you validate once you've got the people hooked and intrigued like, Oh, that's really interesting. Read, read, read and go, Oh, okay, this is you're a real company, you're not a startup.
Dave Haynes:You're working with all these other companies. That makes me more interested in actually reaching out and talking to you, as opposed to, you know, immediate chest beating of, this is the world's largest, we're the biggest, or we're leading, and leading is such an empty phrase that everybody uses for reasons that escape me.
Brian Rowley:Agree.
Laura Smith:All right, Dave. It's time for the part of the show that we call the Hot Seat. This is where we put our guests on the spot with a rapid fire challenge.
Brian Rowley:Here's how it works.
Laura Smith:We're gonna throw out some common, maybe overused PR marketing terms. We want to get your gut reaction. You could say something, you could make a noise.
Brian Rowley:We want your real gut reaction.
Laura Smith:This is really remove the filter that we know that you do. So whatever comes to mind. No overthinking it. We're just gonna go through about six or seven words, and I'm gonna start. Okay.
Laura Smith:Okay. Exclusive. Contextually, it can be good.
Dave Haynes:It it it's it's a real it's one of those it depends.
Laura Smith:Okay. Embargo. Stupid. Waste of time. Why?
Dave Haynes:Why? If if there are legal reasons, Securities and Exchange Commission reasons why it needs to be embargoed, great. But of all the embargoes that embargoed material gets sent to me, 99% of it, there's no logical reason for an embargo other than, it's again a formulaic thing where you can't write about this until Tuesday at 9AM and I'm fucking, fine, but like, I don't really care, but there's a lot of journalists, particularly on the newspaper side who would just say, well screw you, and just, if you send it to me, it's up.
Brian Rowley:Dave, how much of what you get is usually under embargo?
Dave Haynes:I'd say maybe 15%.
Brian Rowley:Oh, it's low, okay. Yeah, it's not that high. Interesting.
Dave Haynes:And maybe this because they know me.
Laura Smith:They're like, he'll write about it anyway. Wake's already out. Wake's disruptor.
Dave Haynes:It's an empty phrase. It's overused.
Brian Rowley:Inauthentic. Empty. Visionary. Empty. Strategic announcement.
Dave Haynes:If it wasn't strategic, why are you announcing it?
Brian Rowley:Fair enough. Fair enough. Best in class. Stupid. I don't think there's any surprises here, Laura.
Brian Rowley:When were actually putting together sort of our conversation, we were talking about this, I was like, I can pretty much tell you everything that we got over here. It's going to be empty or And for a reason, but know what, here's the thing, right? Like we did this specifically because if you go back and look at press releases or announcements or things that people do, right? This list is very common in most of them.
Laura Smith:Right. So which one physically pains you?
Dave Haynes:I'd say that when's this have Guinness World Record?
Laura Smith:You don't get that.
Dave Haynes:Oh God, That wasn't
Brian Rowley:on our list, it probably would be a
Laura Smith:Guinness Really? Guinness World Record, you get that?
Dave Haynes:Oh, get, about every month I'll get something saying this is Guinness World Record for the biggest something. And I'm reading and going, well, that's nice, but like, who the hell cares other than the Guinness people who got, you know, like a $100 or whatever they get if you register these things.
Brian Rowley:Unbelievable.
Dave Haynes:And Frost and Sullivan awards
Laura Smith:on Yes, the yeah.
Dave Haynes:Awards you buy. Exactly.
Brian Rowley:Dave, unfortunately time is getting ahead of us here, but we wanna thank you so much for joining us and sharing your perspective. I know that, you know, it's always eye opening when I have these conversations with you and I hope that it actually gives people that are out there that are doing the marketing roles a little bit more to think about when they're actually trying to work and engage with media and understand like what really drives you and what gets you to really pay attention to a brand or to a story.
Dave Haynes:Yeah, editors don't bite. They just, the good ones just wanna know why they should write something about this. So give them context, think about what's the information they're gonna need and make sure you have that checklist of everything they're gonna want because think the other thing that has driven me nuts through the years is so many companies will send me a very lengthy press release about a visual project. And then I have to reply to them and say, do you have any photos or video? Like they just send me the like a written description of this visual product.
Dave Haynes:I'm going, did you not have your coffee this morning? Did you skip your meds?
Laura Smith:I mean, that's the thing. It's like, especially in our industry, we're so visual that we say all the time internally even, we'll say like, we can't just put this in words. We could just show it because that's what we do.
Dave Haynes:Yeah. And granted sometimes the distribution platforms don't allow it, but if they don't allow it, then think about that and send it separately or something like put a Dropbox link or something where you can pick them up. It's not hard.
Brian Rowley:No, it's not. That's not rocket science we're dealing with here for sure. For sure.
Laura Smith:Yeah. So thank you so much, Dave. It was great to chat with you. You're welcome. And as we mentioned, Dave is semi retired, he's but doing some light consulting.
Laura Smith:He's writing here and there for sixteen nine, maybe some podcasts hosting and moderating, but he's definitely saving time for gardening and kayaking and avoiding any big commitments or actual jobs. It sounds like a well earned semi retirement, Dave.
Dave Haynes:Yeah, especially in the summer. When it gets cold here, I'll
Brian Rowley:You'll pick up a bit? Yeah,
Dave Haynes:I'll get more from when I can't go outside, then I'll be more interested in hanging out at a desk.
Brian Rowley:Well, thank you very much. I mean, Laura, it's interesting. You know, I think a lot of this is topics that we've covered, but I think, you know, two key points, right, that we talked about was sort of that stop talking about yourself and, you know, minimize the big empty statements. I think those two things just in general, and we see it all the time, right? We constantly read press releases.
Brian Rowley:We're asked to be a part of press releases. We're asked for that quote, from our CEO or whoever, just like everybody else. And I think, you know, it's also partly our responsibility to even as we're gonna be participating in something actually to look at it and say, is it really a value to us, right? Is it value to what the audience that we're trying to talk to?
Laura Smith:Yeah. I love the conversation because everything Dave says, we know it. Like, we know this, but it's sometimes hard to get out of the rhythm of what we're doing day to day and expectations that people have internally, etcetera. So I feel like it's like, we know this. I wish every journalist would handle these the interactions the same way.
Laura Smith:Like, that honesty is so important. If someone gave the team a list of things that that's all they needed to give and they just pitch that out versus writing these fluffy emails, that makes so much more sense. It's saving everyone time. So I really yeah. It was just it echoed everything we know.
Laura Smith:We just have to remind ourselves and as do all other marketers that this is the best approach, and press releases aren't needed for every little thing.
Brian Rowley:Thanks for listening. And most importantly, if you like what you heard today, be sure to follow us. If you want to keep up with Dave's sharp takes or reach out you can still find him on LinkedIn and of course check out sixteen-nine.net which remains a must read for Honest Pro AV news and analysis. Thanks for listening. Prose + Comms.
