Gen Z in the Workplace: Managing the Next Generation of Marketers
Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:Today, we're talking about a generation that seems to inspire a lot of workplace opinions, Gen Z. Depending on who you ask, Gen Z employees are ambitious and adaptable, or they're difficult to manage, quick to leave, and unwilling to pay their dues. So the question is, is Gen Z genuinely harder to lead and retain, or are they pushing marketing teams to rethink what strong workplace culture should look like? An interesting topic.
Brian Rowley:It is an interesting topic. But before we actually jump into the bigger workplace question, let's actually start by admitting our own assumptions. Like every generation seems to have strong feelings about the generation that comes after it. But what I guess Laura is one stereotype about Gen Z at work that you've heard repeatedly.
Laura Smith:That they're not motivated. And I read that sixty two percent of HR managers say that Gen Z is their toughest group to motivate. So I feel like that's valid because it's I don't think it's lazy. It's just they're not motivated to continue to do their job and grow and excel and maybe manage to the expectations that are set for them.
Brian Rowley:I know this, we could start here. I mean, because quite honestly, like, as I look at that, I'm like, is it that they're not motivated? Or are they just motivated in different ways? I think this is the part for me with these conversations, because when we were doing this, there are a lot of stereotypes that exist around Gen Z. And I have to be honest, I don't know that I agree with a lot of them.
Brian Rowley:I think it's just we've become a culture in general, a work culture in general, that I think has to adapt to these different generations. And I don't think we as leaders in businesses do a really good job of doing that. So for me, like, I don't know that they're any lazier or less motivated as much as it is like, we just have to change the way we motivate these people.
Laura Smith:Well, I think, yeah, and there's a lot of research to say. I mean, the times have changed clearly. So from like, Brian, like from when we started our careers, obviously you before mine, the
Brian Rowley:I'm glad you get that every opportunity you have.
Laura Smith:Every time. Time. Just like it's anyone wondering that I'm
Brian Rowley:For those of you who are listening, she's gonna poke at my age one more time. Go ahead.
Laura Smith:Anyway, it just was a different environment, right? So like when you like what did ambition look like when you start out your career?
Brian Rowley:Well, I think at that point it was about the you work twenty four seven, like that really proved that you were like, motivated and you know, loyal to the company and you were doing all those things. And I would look at that and say, but was that even healthy? And what did that prove? Like, there's nothing worse for me managing people than having someone who comes in and says, you know, I worked until 11:00 last night. And you're like, well, your job doesn't really require that.
Brian Rowley:So there's, are you really doing your job to the best of its ability? Are you prioritizing your work the correct way? You know, time allocation, all of those things are the things that for me, look at I don't look at that and say, oh, well, you know, that's an ambitious person because they worked until 11:00. I'm like, what were you doing?
Laura Smith:But when we were climbing the ladder, that was what it was. It was working longer meant working harder. And so there was constant expectations around, you know, being seen in the office, working super late nights, working around the clock, and it was all about climb, climb, climb, climb, climb. Like, how do we climb that ladder and make more money? And now Gen Z does not like, they value the work life balance, the mental health, the values of the company so much more than pay and their title.
Laura Smith:So I just think culturally, that's shifted. And you still have managers and leaders in positions like us that come from a very different place. So it's that shift in that mindset that has to adjust as well to the different generations. Because, you know, this generation it's interesting because we don't have anyone on our team in this Gen Z,
Brian Rowley:group. No.
Laura Smith:But in my previous job, plenty of them. And I think it used to be like, this used to be the whole I don't know what I was. I was probably whenever, I don't know, late twenties maybe, and I was in advertising. And I remember I started having millennials work for me. And so I'm obviously not a millennial.
Laura Smith:And so it was like new And it was very different because I was like high expectations, you know, no one cries at baseball, like you just work hard, you just deal with what's set for you. And the millennials weren't adjusting to that. They were like, what? That's like scary and I don't wanna be here all the time. And and I remember my boss at the time, like, stuck an article on my office wall that was like how to manage millennials because it was like such an adjustment.
Laura Smith:Yeah. So I think I remember that. So it's probably no different than it is now for people managing Gen Z because it's an adjustment from the Gen Xs or boomers or whoever, you know, whoever's managing and leading right now.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I think one thing that's actually interesting about the labels for this one, which it's funny when we were doing some of the prep for this, it came up and I was like, oh, Lauren, I struggled on this one. And that was just needing constant feedback and actually validation. And that's not either you or me. That's not our strengths, right?
Brian Rowley:When we look at this status, if you're looking for that, we are the wrong place. And it's not that we don't appreciate the work that's actually being done. It's just that pat on the back constantly and all that stuff like we're, we've got a lot going on, right? And so it's like finding time to be able to do that. Not that it's I don't think that we don't recognize the successes of the team.
Brian Rowley:It's just that that constant need for that reassurance is not a strength that you and I, either one of us have, if we're being honest.
Laura Smith:Right. A 100%. And I think that that is we always say feedback as a gift, but constructive feedback is You
Brian Rowley:say feedback is a gift.
Laura Smith:Now I Yes. Say but I feel like it's, you know, we tend to be more on that, constructive feedback side because, again, it's it's where we came from. It's like my I learned my my best bosses were people who put the pressure on and led by example, but I was respected so much. But then I also, know, build a rapport with them too. Like, it's like, how do you and I just think it's different.
Laura Smith:It's like some people just wanna be friends with their managers, and it's like, there has to be a balance. And I think some you know? And again, it's just like when different generations are managing or managing to, each other, it's it's it's a dynamic that needs to be addressed. And I think there are some of these perceptions around Gen Z and there are. I mean, this data shows that there's truth in what their priorities are or what they're lacking or what their strengths are.
Laura Smith:So how much are people paying attention to that though in the workforce to tend to that?
Brian Rowley:Yeah, I mean, I think they've done honestly, I think this generation has done a really good job of helping set work life balance. I think that
Laura Smith:you know, Millennials started that for sure.
Brian Rowley:For sure. But I think Gen Z took it to a whole other level. Right? Like, I mean, we have, and we've seen this, we've all worked with people who you know, it's it's literally like 05:00, I'm done. And and I've got something to do tonight.
Brian Rowley:Now, a lot of them will pick stuff up after they're done with that. But whatever it was that was taking them away from work at that time is the priority. And then this will come back as a priority later. But I think that they've done a nice job of not saying that, you know, you can only be productive between eight and five, you know, and, that's the time that work gets done. I think they have said, and maybe it's because, they've seen people, I mean, how many people do you work with that have sort of, and this is a whole other conversation.
Brian Rowley:So I'm not saying right or wrong, but how many people have prioritised their career over raising their children and missed those? Like there's only one opportunity for your kids to walk. There's only one opportunity for and how many people missed that because they were trying to balance their life and actually regret that in their life as they move forward. I don't think this generation will allow that to happen because that is the most important point at that point in time. And I do give them credit for that.
Brian Rowley:I think that was important.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I think the one thing that they are criticized for is changing jobs quickly. So bouncing around a bit. And it's interesting because it's, you know, are are they loyal at the conversation around like, are is a company loyal to them? Are they loyal to the company?
Laura Smith:So I think the whole the concept of loyalty comes into play and it's all discussed a lot. So like, are your thoughts on that, Brian, as far as like, should the company be loyal? Is that a reasonable expectation? Should the employee be loyal, you know, to whatever extent? Like, where's your head at?
Brian Rowley:Well, I've worked for some larger corporations and I think my frame, my my point of view on this, sorry, I just had a moment there, but my point of view on this is actually a little bit different. And I would say this, I'll tell you this and then I'll answer the question. But at one point in my career, some of the best advice that was ever given to me was I was working for Verizon and one of my mentors there had said, don't ever be more loyal to someone than they are to you. And I think that's a really valuable piece of information. It doesn't matter whether it's your career, it doesn't matter whether it's a relationship that you're in, it doesn't matter who you're doing business with.
Brian Rowley:Understand and know the level of loyalty that you're up against. And then you know the game that you're playing. And then you adjust accordingly. Because if someone is not going to be loyal to me, why am I going to give up all those important moments in my life that really matter for them when in the reverse, they could just turn around? Verizon's a perfect example.
Brian Rowley:We used to wake up every six months wondering if today was the day that the hammer was going to drop and you would be without a job. And that happened on a rotation on a regular basis. And I think so the concept and I can remember when that first started happening in my world and in my career, my dad just couldn't grasp that because from his generation, loyalty to a company was like the most important thing that you could, know, you could show or you could you could exhibit. And, and for me, it became less and less important because companies weren't being that same in return.
Laura Smith:Yeah. Because I think loyalty back then was tied to tenure. Yes. Right? So if you stay at a company really long, your seniority, all that was tied to that.
Laura Smith:And now it gets earned through impacting growth more so than any years you're served. So the mindset of, like, I'm here longer. I shouldn't ever have an opportunity to be, you know, laid off or be at risk is, like, if you're delivering, it doesn't matter how long you're there. And that's just a shift of, I think, of the way, business is done now. So the newer generation, I think the the generations, I think, are thinking more about, okay, I'll be loyal to you if you're loyal to me.
Laura Smith:But again, their loyalty doesn't it's not tied to tenure. Their loyalty is tied to, like, opportunity, where they see growth, where they see their culture that fits them, the values are aligned, things like that. And loyalty is just a different thing than it was when our parents, you know, our parents worked places for twenty five plus years.
Brian Rowley:Or even us, you know, I mean, I look at, you know, my husband, I mean, Joe, he's been with the same company for thirty years. That's unheard of.
Laura Smith:Can't even imagine. I was at my last company for nine and I was like, couldn't even believe that was the case because it was like, that's long. Yeah. But I don't like I don't yeah. I don't know.
Laura Smith:It's hard now because oh, yeah. Are you continuing to be challenged? I don't know.
Brian Rowley:Think that's the answer though.
Laura Smith:It's a other probably conversation about that.
Brian Rowley:But I think that is sort of the answer that I think some people and especially in this generation, I don't think they look at it as you know, are you providing me an opportunity? Are you providing me the opportunity that allows me to be challenged every day, get up and do the job that I do for a company that I believe in, that stands for the things that I stand for. That's a really important message versus someone who gets up every day, you know, and this goes back to prior generations, right? Where it was like, I got up, didn't necessarily believe in the company, but I'd been there for five years. So now I need to be there for nine years or ten years or eleven years, right?
Brian Rowley:I'm miserable at what I do. I'm not overly appreciated for the work that I do, but yet I'm gonna stay there. Like, does that make that any better? I don't think so.
Laura Smith:Right. No. And I think now this, you know, Gen Z is, they'll, you know, they'll just put their foot down. Like if they feel like their their growth has stalled, then they're going to leave. If they feel like the culture of flexibility or like not working for them, and that that's like those are deal breakers.
Laura Smith:And I think, you know, like, you know, you've read about it. It's like burnout and management is like a thing for them too. I think if they have the wrong management style that they're that they're working for and they feel burnt out no. Again, I don't think I think burnt out can be Yeah. Defined differently.
Laura Smith:Obviously, like we talked about, like, when we were early in our careers, truly burnout was like a thing because no one can work that much, but we did. So I think it's they're just I don't wanna say pickier because it almost has a negative connotation. It's like they just have expectations that they're not gonna lower in certain areas for a company to, like, you know, run their life. Yeah. And I respect that.
Laura Smith:It's just it is as a manager, and we have to at least I can admit it. Like, it is hard when you manage people that don't, that don't take it as seriously, I think, or as, I don't know. I don't know describe it as, like, ambitiously. Because ambitious is a thing. Right?
Laura Smith:You want everyone to be ambitious because you want everyone to love their job and do better and do better for the company and then in turn their career. Right? Like, you kinda continue to grow. So if you just kind of see like it's a difference between a career and a job. So knowing that we take, you know, our the company and what we're doing very seriously, it's really important, and I view my this is my career, and I always have.
Laura Smith:When you have someone that works for you that looks at it as a job, it's just hard to manage because
Brian Rowley:Agreed.
Laura Smith:The expectation is you're here to build a career, not just to collect a paycheck and run home and at 05:00 and forget about us, you know? Not to say you're it needs be on at night, but it's like this should be a an important part of your life.
Brian Rowley:I would say the one thing that I do struggle with a little bit, and I know this is even in the interview process. When I see a lot of job jumping, that always for me continues to be a red flag and whether it is or should be is a different question. But it always is. It's still and I know, even when we present candidates to our leadership team to say, this is someone who I think we're going to move forward with. That's one of the first things that people always ask.
Brian Rowley:What what are your thoughts there?
Laura Smith:But, yeah, I think it's have I've had to say this to you before during the process of interviewing. It's like, I if you look at the numbers and how often Gen z, like people are switching jobs. So this is just the old school mindset doesn't carry through anymore because that's what we and and, again, I I definitely pause too because I'm like, okay. These people having opportunities that don't make sense for them. Are they taking proactive, you know, steps?
Laura Smith:Are they just going a lot of startups that, like, don't start up, and so there's lot of, like, getting laid off. There has to be context there, but we know millennials and Gen Zs, I mean Gen Z mostly, like they have a high turnover rate. They're just not gonna stay at a company super long. So we have to expect to see that to some degree and not get caught up in the old school mindset.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, I think for me anyways, I think, you know, the reasons for movement are also really important and understanding that. And I always what what I don't like is I don't like the movement that's sort of out of the blue and catches you off guard. And and I think that I think if you have a good relationship, and you establish a team where obviously feedback is a gift. And you take advantage of that by having regular touch points to understand like, what are your objectives? Where are you trying to get to?
Brian Rowley:What are the goals that you have as an individual? And quite honestly, if the company that they're working for cannot deliver that, I'd be the first one to help them go find something else, right? Because you wouldn't want to be also someone who stands in the way of someone being able to do what they want to do. That said, I think there's a responsibility to be honest about that back to the employer. If you're having those conversations with someone and you're willing to have the discussion around, hey, what are you trying to achieve?
Brian Rowley:Where do you want to go all of those things for career development for them. For them to be honest in return about, hey, I want to be here by this timeframe or here by this time, at least then you can say that's realistic or unrealistic and plan accordingly on both sides.
Laura Smith:Yeah, I think those like, right, like if you give the opportunity to have the open forum and have the discussion, then people should take advantage of that. And doesn't mean that they're gonna get what they want. It just means like we can't read minds. And if there are things that you feel would be more fulfilling for you and your role, then let us know, and we can say that if that's you know, if we can meet those expectations or not, and let them make that decision. But I do think there's a lot of probably, I guess it depends, but, you know, more bitching in the background than there is having those true conversations.
Laura Smith:I think it's easier for people. Don't wanna confront some of those situations. And maybe Gen Z does it more often because they have such passion about certain areas that are really important to them. But I think traditionally, you don't have a lot of overly, like, high demand type people. At least I haven't experienced to the point where it's like, you know, it's okay, you want that?
Laura Smith:Let me know that. And then let's see if we can fulfill upon it. I think people come with, you know, looking for opportunities, but I don't think it's always, I think always being honest, I guess.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. About self awareness? Do you think, like, I mean, I look at it and would say
Laura Smith:That's like a whole other session.
Brian Rowley:I know. I would say that like, I think millennials are a little less self aware than I think they are in the Gen Z world. I think Gen Z is more accepting of the, this is what I want, this is how I get there. Whereas I think the millennial generation is, I don't think they're as self aware.
Laura Smith:Interesting. I feel like there's so many people that aren't self aware that across all generations. Feel like I identify way too many of them. I'm like, versus not self aware.
Brian Rowley:That's a whole other conversation.
Laura Smith:We need a therapist in the room for that one. It's a thing. We talked about oh, sorry.
Brian Rowley:Ahead. Was gonna say, talked a little bit. Thank you. We talked a little bit about feedback and reassurance. I mean, so again, that's not our strength.
Brian Rowley:So like for folks that might be listening to this, that that's not their strength. Like, what, how do you overcome that? Like, do you do you make the effort to do that reassurance? Or like, how do you how do you balance that? Because that is a big part of Gen Z.
Brian Rowley:Like that reassurance is is an important piece.
Laura Smith:Right. And I think some people say it's like entitlement or, you know, is about the expectations. I think it probably has to do a bit more with like that, the inconsistent management piece. I think the management, who manages a style of their managers is so important to them that I think that you need to be able to bend to giving them what they know, like, they're if they're getting it in whatever format, I think they're fine. I don't think they're asking for more.
Laura Smith:It's just a matter of, like, how they having consistent managers that are giving the feedback. And if they're not, then they're gonna be looking for it, and they're asking for it. So I think we, like, we know we're not great at it, but that's you know, step one is acknowledgment. Yeah. Yeah.
Laura Smith:And knowing that and, like I said, we don't have any Gen Z. It's not to say gen millennials aren't also similar with feedback because I think we've kind of heard that. Yeah. Two for millennials, that you need to have some of that positive recognition. And I think I I I wanna say we don't I mean, now it's like we're giving ourselves a bad image because we oh, we do get positive recognition.
Laura Smith:We thank the team. We like everything the team is, you know, we make sure the team feels. It's just more of that ongoing sometimes, which is, you know, in the thick of things, it's like you forget to pause to say, oh, you know, great work versus just like, that going.
Brian Rowley:And I think the other side to that too, is there are not two bigger advocates for our team than the two of us. Right. Right? That doesn't always come across, right? That doesn't always, they don't always get to see that.
Brian Rowley:But I mean, you know, we know what we advocate for and make sure that the team is taken, that we try to balance their work and understand what the expectations are of them and all that stuff. They don't get the opportunity to see a lot of that. So I guess, you know, just being probably more transparent in those areas are probably things that could definitely be beneficial for someone managing this this audience.
Laura Smith:Yeah. So it's obviously we've talked about AI, right? So like, clearly they're in the thick of it. They kind of grew up with it if some to some degree. I mean, like, you know, the the older generation that's work the older end of the generation that's working, obviously, in school, college.
Laura Smith:So do you think that they're they're comfortable with it? Or do you think that they're too dependent on it? Like, where do you think as they enter the workforce, they'll sit?
Brian Rowley:I would say that it's probably more of their life. And it just becomes second nature to them. Don't know. It's interesting on this one, because I actually like, is there an advantage for them for doing it? Well, I guess, but at the same time, we've had this conversation about AI a million times, right in the past year, like we continue to go through it.
Brian Rowley:There's a certain level of capabilities that AI allows marketers to achieve and do that at a faster pace. But there's still there's that need to understand the business. There's the need to understand the marketing roles and functions. And there's incredible level of importance that needs to make sure that whatever work you're doing from a marketing perspective becomes authentic, right, and is authentic and not forced through an AI model. So I think there's an advantage in terms of them being able to prioritise work better through using AI and AI models.
Brian Rowley:But the actual output of their work is still very dependent upon their individual skills and and their abilities to be able to understand what is relevant, you know, and and what will will resonate with the audience that they're having conversations with.
Laura Smith:Yeah. I think they're just gonna be like super users, to be honest. Think they're just gonna have it. That's to me, like they're entering the workforce. They've used it in school.
Laura Smith:They probably know, again, I always say the younger generations that work on teams, know, I learn from them so much more because they know the newest, the latest, the greatest. They're up and up on all the newest stuff. I mean, obviously, there's controversy around, like, is it gonna remove their jobs because they're administrative? Well, not that's your point. Not necessarily.
Laura Smith:I think it again, it's gonna they're gonna come into the workforce and have a leg up on it's not and depending on, you know, thinking about, like, an engineers, you know, for example, like, they're really gonna have a leg up because they're learning that while they're being educated. So then they're, you know, get it coming, whereas people in the workforce have to learn it while still doing their regular job. Right? Like, it kind of figuring out how to navigate. So, yeah, I think they'll come in being super users and and teaching those that are around them, above, beside, below, whatever.
Brian Rowley:And I think those that are in the workforce already and have the opportunity to work with Gen Zs in regards to this particular topic, I mean, I would have the desk right next to them trying to learn as much as I possibly because it is I mean, it's a reality. It you know, it's those that actually who are willing to embrace II or those that are going to be left behind. It is as simple as that. I don't think that conversation goes much further. Right.
Laura Smith:Okay. Which marketing fundamentals should every early career employee still learn without AI?
Brian Rowley:I think understanding understanding audiences and understanding the people that they're talking to, making sure they've got a good grasp on the on the market they're serving and whatever AI materials that they're generating that may be putting into that conversation, under having a good understanding of that before they start crafting with AI, I think is going to be important. How about you? I
Laura Smith:think I think we had we talked about this similar question before in one of our chats, but I go back to curiosity, just being curious because being however that means, like, however you dig in, whether you're using AI or not using AI, just, like, dig in and be curious about the business, about the audiences, to your point, about the products, about all the different departments that are in the company, not just the one they're sitting in. I mean, the best thing is like, if you ask, you know, a million questions, you're just gonna learn more. So just that curiosity piece would be regardless of generation really, but I think someone starting out their career, that's super important.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I I think being humble too, you know, like that that's a big one. We see a lot of people that aren't. And it's one of those things where I mean, we all talk to them, right? We've had people who have been on, you know, this show who we have talked to that might be, you know, potential guests and we've been like, I don't think that's a fit.
Brian Rowley:But I think
Laura Smith:being like, I'm like, what are you saying? Yes, get what you're saying.
Brian Rowley:No, being humble. Like, at the end of the day, we can all learn from each other. It doesn't matter what your title is within an organisation, how old you are, like what role you're playing, like, we all have the ability to learn from each other and we shouldn't lose sight of that.
Laura Smith:Okay, well, think this is a good discussion.
Brian Rowley:Yeah, I agree. I think this is a I think this is an interesting one. We could go on and on and on, and tackle like each of the generations. But I think important here is just, I mean, there are some stereotypes that are out there, obviously that people need to work with. But I also think that as leaders within businesses, we should understand the generation itself and figure out like, how do we need to adjust?
Brian Rowley:Like they might not be the problem, we might be the problem. And going into it with that expectation of trying to understand that I think is beneficial for everybody. I think this is a great conversation.
Laura Smith:So thanks everyone for listening. And most importantly, if you like what you heard today, be sure to follow us.
Brian Rowley:Prose and Comms.
