Why Your Culture Might Be Killing Your CX
That consistency of experience in terms of what are the values of the brand, what are the behaviors that we expect, that needs to be reiterated every touchpoint. So whether that's a touchpoint with a manager or it's a team meeting or it's a group meeting or it's a twice a year gathering or whatever it is. If you're not reinforcing those reasons to come to work every day, the brand promise and how you deliver it to customers, then it's going to fall down.
Laura Smith:Welcome to Prose + Comms: Engagement, Unplugged. I'm Laura Smith.
Brian Rowley:And I'm Brian Rowley.
Laura Smith:Today, we're talking about something that's super important but doesn't always get enough attention, how company culture shapes the customer experience. Culture isn't just a buzzword. It's what really drives how people act at every level of a company, and that's what customers pick up on. We'll chat about how culture affects what happens on the front lines, the folks who actually interact with customers every day. It's a big topic with lots to explore, and we're excited to dig in with a very special guest, someone who's been at the heart of brand culture and communications for a long time.
Brian Rowley:But before we dive in, we're gonna kick things off with a little game called who said it? Who said it? Said it? Ho ho. That is our phenomenal producer, Mr.
Brian Rowley:Joey Whip. Way to go, Joey. All right. So since we're talking about culture today, Joey's going to read us some famous quotes about culture, leadership, and customer experience. And then Laura and I are gonna need to guess actually who said it.
Producer Joey:All right, you guys ready? It's multiple choice, so it's a little bit
Brian Rowley:Thanks for making it easy.
Laura Smith:I don't do well on multiple choice. I get very confused.
Producer Joey:Well, know, at least you don't have to fill in a little
Producer Joey:Won't trigger you.
Brian Rowley:But if you feel more comfortable,
Laura Smith:You can.
Producer Joey:Hold it up for you to see
Producer Joey:Here we go. First one. Customers will never love a company until the employees love it first. Was that a, Simon Sinek, b, AG Lafley, or c, Richard Branson?
Brian Rowley:I'm gonna go with Branson. C.
Laura Smith:I'm gonna go with Simon. A.
Producer Joey:It is A. Simon Sinek.
Brian Rowley:Hate when she gets ahead of me.
Producer Joey:Alright. Next one. Culture eats strategy for breakfast. Was that A, Warren Buffett? B, Peter Drucker, or c, Elon Musk?
Laura Smith:Warren Buffett?
Producer Joey:Peter Drucker. It's b, Peter Drucker. Nice. We're tied. Scores one to one.
Producer Joey:We got a tie game here. We got
Laura Smith:I love that quote.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. That's a great one.
Producer Joey:Good one. That's a really good one. Question number three. The people who are crazy enough to think they can change the world are the ones who do. A, Steve Jobs, b, Elon Musk, or c, Jeff Bezos.
Laura Smith:Jobs all the way.
Brian Rowley:Right, Brian? All the way. Yeah. Yeah. Completely agree.
Producer Joey:That's right. Still a tie.
Laura Smith:We're all winners here.
Brian Rowley:We're all everyone's a winner.
Laura Smith:All winner.
Producer Joey:We're all winners on this podcast. Okay. We got takes twenty years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. A, Warren Buffett, B, Richard Branson, or C, Steve Jobs?
Laura Smith:Richard Branson?
Brian Rowley:I'm gonna go with Buffett. I think it's a, Buffett.
Producer Joey:It is a. It is Warren Buffett. Brian's in the lead. We got one left. Let's see what happens here.
Producer Joey:Train people well enough so they can leave. Treat them well enough so they don't want to. A, Howard Schultz, B, Simon Sinek. C, Richard Branson.
Laura Smith:This is one of my faves, and it's Richard Branson.
Brian Rowley:Really? I was gonna say Simon Sinek.
Producer Joey:Looks like we got a tie because that was Laura was right on that one. So I think
Brian Rowley:So it was Branson.
Producer Joey:It was Branson. I'm
Bob Osmond:sorry. It was Branson.
Brian Rowley:That's another great one.
Producer Joey:Well, you two are just the perfect cohost duo. It's just a perfect tie split down the middle.
Laura Smith:And everyone's a winner.
Producer Joey:Love it.
Laura Smith:Perfect scoring. I love it. All right. Joey, thanks for the fun game. We had so much fun, but we're gonna shift from culture quotes to someone who's actually helped shape a few cultures.
Laura Smith:Today's guest is someone we're lucky to have known and worked with for years, a longtime partner, collaborator, and true culture champion. He's a communications leader with more than three decades of experience, helping major tech, consumer brands tell their story, bring their purpose to life, all while doing award winning work along the way. He's also an executive coach, a trusted media and speaker trainer, and someone who knows how to help leaders show up with clarity and confidence, including myself. Oh, and and every November, he grows a mustache to raise money for men's health that is truly unforgettable. Trust me.
Laura Smith:It even gets creepy. He's a true culture guy, and we're lucky to call him a friend. Please welcome Bob Osmond.
Brian Rowley:Hey, both. Hey, Bob. Great to have you. And I have seen those November those mustaches. They're they're interesting.
Brian Rowley:I give you a lot of credit for those. You step out. Yeah.
Bob Osmond:Thank you. Creepy. Nice, Laura. Appreciate that.
Laura Smith:It's all for a good cause, Bob.
Bob Osmond:It is all for a good cause. I will say it is my it is my least favorite month of the year because of the mustache, for sure. But it it does its job.
Laura Smith:And it changes every every year. I feel like sometimes it curves up. Sometimes it right? You just keep it steady.
Bob Osmond:You gotta mix it up. Yeah. Exactly. Exactly.
Brian Rowley:You can't do the same thing over and over again. That gets boring. Bob, you are I know and I'm so happy that you're here because I know culture is such a huge topic for you and one that you're really passionate about. And I know myself over the years have learned a lot just from conversations you and I have had about this. But I think, you know, one of the things as we jump in, I want to sort of jump in feet first here.
Brian Rowley:And the question that I have is, you know, can people actually deliver that great customer experience without a strong internal culture?
Bob Osmond:Well, I think it is possible on a sort of episodic or one off basis that's dependent on an individual delivering customer service, let's say, or customer experience, but it's not sustainable. So in order to deliver sustainably over time a consistent customer experience that builds brand love and brand reputation, you absolutely, in my opinion, need to have a a strong culture.
Brian Rowley:But can you I I guess the the piece to it is and this is kind of one of the things when you talk about culture. Right? You know, there's a lot of times we've all been working in those companies where you talk about culture, and there's a lot of head rolls. Right? There's a lot of eye rolls.
Brian Rowley:People are like, no, yeah, this is what they're saying this week, whatever. I mean, can you actually, is there an opportunity ever for people to really fake it, especially when it comes to the so you may not agree with it a 100% internally. Right? You might come along a little bit for the ride. But from the external side of it, can people fake it and pull that off?
Bob Osmond:Well, I think I loved all the quotes that you started with, by the way, some of some of my faves too. But I think that when we talk about customer experience, the thing to remember is that in many ways, it's the most honest thing a brand does. So my experience as a consumer or in a B2B space as a customer is really going to be my experience of the brand. So it is hard to fake it until you make it because it really is experience of my view is culture made visible. So where you touch the brand most directly is generally going to be with another human being.
Bob Osmond:Sometimes it's not, obviously, with the role of technology that's shifting and has shifted. But your overall experience is going to determine your view of what that brand stands for even if it's inconsistent with what the brand stands for. So I think, yeah, you can maybe fake it till you make it a little bit, but ultimately, it falls down.
Laura Smith:One question I have, Bob, and I think we've talked about this before, and Brian and I have had good spirited conversations around it. But does culture start at the top of an organization? Does it come top down, or does a culture really get created by the people within the organization and kinda roll up and down?
Bob Osmond:Well, it's just this is gonna be an annoying answer. I think it's a both end. And I think it's an it depends. If you're early stage in a company, right, and a founder may have an idea about what the culture is, and the founder may have a tight group of folks that closely held within the organization. They may very well together determine what that culture is.
Bob Osmond:So there's one way in which the leader and all of the employees or those in the organization are really helping to shape it. There are other situations when brands go through transformations like established brands, where they go through transformations either maybe due to a repositioning or a merger or an acquisition, where they have to look at in what ways are we defining or redefining our culture. So does it come from the top? Sure. It can be defined top down.
Bob Osmond:It can also be defined more democratically. But I would say, and we've seen plenty of data to suggest that this is true, where it can fall down is from the top down. So where there is a disconnect between what a brand purports to stand for or promises and the gap in delivery or perceived delivery, that can start from the top. I mean, obviously, recent example is the reputational challenges that Tesla's facing due to its CEO's actions. So whatever pulled people into that brand, I mean, one of the funniest things is you see these bumper stickers that say something like I bought this before he went crazy.
Bob Osmond:Yeah. Well, imagine they were an early mover in the EV space and owning a Tesla was a bit of a badge item, not just because it was a cool at that time, it was considered to be cool technology, but also it was like I'm embracing a future that is focused on at least minimizing or reducing the damage we do on the planet. Then fast forward all of these years and you have a business owner, the face of the business, who's really causing people to question their relationship with the brand. So yes, I guess it's both and, but a surefire way to crush customer perception or customer experience is if your CEO goes sideways.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I think that the executive leadership has a responsibility to sort of set sort of the foundation and strategy, in my opinion.
Bob Osmond:Yeah.
Brian Rowley:And then I think it's the employees who actually build that and emphasize it and strengthen it. Because I think it can fall apart in either direction, right, from what I've seen, because you do have the naysayers to your especially during a turnover, right? Or an acquisition, because you've got, okay, well, we stood for this for so long, and now all of a sudden we're standing for this and people are like, oh, is this just another buzzword, right? Culture. And in some cases, it's a fair question because in a lot of cases it really and truly is.
Brian Rowley:And I think when you do that type of work and you do that acquisition, culture doesn't change overnight. It takes time. And so I do feel like it can fall apart in either direction. But I do also believe that the executive and the leadership team needs to support it and drive it home as being important, no matter how they define it.
Laura Smith:And live and breathe it.
Brian Rowley:Yes.
Laura Smith:Because if they're not, how do you expect the organization to do that? So I think that's what's really important is because I think a leadership change can affect it. If everyone else lives and breathes and gets behind it and understands it and values it, you know, that's set from the the leadership down, then it becomes the culture of everybody. It's not just the culture that was set by the leadership. And then if those leadership changes, the culture could stay the same if the new leader also supports that same vision.
Laura Smith:So I think it but I think if the new leader doesn't support that vision, then the culture changes. So that's where I see it. It can really come top down.
Bob Osmond:Well, I think a lot of it, Laura, comes down to like, there's so many definitions of what culture is. Right? And even before before I joined today, I was refreshing some of the different definitions. And, the simplest definitions are really about shared values and norms that guide an organization's day to day operations. For me, one of the simplest definitions is like, well, this is how we do things around here.
Bob Osmond:But better than that, it's not just the how we do it, it's the why we're doing it. So coming back to Simon Sinek, but also for whom we're doing it. And so the key is, this is why I think that people who are building organizations, the central part is if you're not thinking about your talent and building a talent centric organization, then you can't expect them to put customers at the center of everything they do. And I forget which quote it was, but it was that idea that, you know, your talent, you invest in them with the expectation or the hope that they will not want to leave.
Laura Smith:Mhmm.
Bob Osmond:Because the point is that if you're investing in your talent, that means you're actually caring as much about your customer experience as you are about talent. And by the way, there's plenty of data from all kinds of different research houses and services firms about how companies that are customer experience centric and or talent centric and or culture centric outperform companies that aren't.
Laura Smith:It's a good segue because then it kind of it does kind of boil down to empowering your people. Right? So making them be part of it, create it, and then live it. So how much of a role does empowerment play in creating standout experiences? And I think the one example that would may stand out to us is the Ritz Carlton example where they're they're empowered to give customers access to different things.
Laura Smith:That's a way to build a relationship and connect with them. So they're really empowering their people, which then reflects on the customer experience. So how much of a role do you think empowerment plays?
Bob Osmond:Oh, huge. I mean, I think if you have a very clear reason to go to work every day, you know why you're showing up, and you live in an environment that gives you clear guidelines, the empowerment or the autonomy to make decisions that you think are going to be in the best interest of your customer and the brand, that makes a massive difference. And Ritz Carlton's just one example. I mean, obviously, that's a luxury brand. But I think that happens day in, out.
Bob Osmond:Even in small to medium sized businesses or mom and pop organizations. It's the people who embrace the idea that the customer is the economic engine for the enterprise. Those are the ones that are successful.
Brian Rowley:And if you think about it, empowering I mean, it's not a really big lift to be able to empower your employees. It's a willingness. And this is again, another example of where I think from the top down, this is where this helps drive culture. Because in order for people to feel empowered, it has to start at the top. It has to start for the people that they directly report to.
Brian Rowley:And it has to be that feeling of an understanding that I do have the power to do something. I'm not just falling in line and doing the expected. So that is, I think, a perfect example. And I think Ritz Carlton obviously does a tremendous job at this because, I mean, you walk in there and you always get treated like the person that you're speaking to is the general manager, whoever the case may be. They all just make you feel like they can do just about anything to make sure that your experience is one that's good.
Bob Osmond:Yeah. I feel like Go ahead, Laura.
Laura Smith:I was going to say just another example would be Trader Joe's. I know there's, you know, different varying opinions on Trader Joe's, but when you go there, you feel like the purse any person working there wants to be there and wants to help you and make this the most seamless, efficient process for you to get in and out and to make sure you get what you need. Mhmm. I don't feel like these people are faking I feel like they truly believe in whatever the organization stands for and the leadership and how they set that out because they feel like they and there's different types of demographics of people that work there. I don't feel like it's, like, all the same, and they're hiring the same kind of people to model.
Laura Smith:I feel like there's a very it's just a range of personalities, but they all stand behind the same thoughts and processes and way in which they engage with customers. So that's one that's not obviously a luxury brand, but just another one that I know when I go in, I feel like, wow. They're being trained in in a way that makes them want to help us, and they genuinely want to be here and help the customer experience.
Bob Osmond:Yeah. I mean, I think I I agree with that example. I think what I feel when I go into a Trader Joe's is it feels aligned. Everything about that brand experience feels aligned in terms of just the way obviously, because they only sell their own products, they have a tremendous amount of brand cohesion in terms of look and feel. But just the vibe of the stores that I've been in by the way, it doesn't matter if I'm in a store in New York City or a store in Burlington, Vermont.
Bob Osmond:The vibe feels very similar. So they clearly are making decisions about not just who they hire, because frankly, it feels very inclusive and diverse. But attitudinally, they're really crystal clear. And I think one of the challenges is that alignment or misalignment is among the biggest barriers to being able to deliver a consistent consumer experience, but also a consistent employee experience. So if you're misaligned in any way, if there's a say do disconnect between what you say, what you do, if there's a say do disconnect in terms of what your leadership says or does, and what's expected of you every day, then that's where things fall down.
Bob Osmond:Because people just can't I don't believe people can effectively perform whatever their job is if they're not clear why they're there, who they're doing it for.
Brian Rowley:So that's actually an interesting segue. Because the other thing that you hear a lot when it comes to overall culture is employee communication, right? Making sure. I'm just curious. I mean, you obviously touch on this here, but let's take that another just a step further, right?
Brian Rowley:How critical is employee communications? And, you know, is there a certain amount of frequency? Because I think it's also an area, quite honestly, that's often overlooked. And I think that's when you talk about alignment, I feel like when that alignment doesn't happen, it's probably because there's multiple forms of communication or multiple messages that are being communicated. And that's when and not to anyone's fault, but a lot of times your front line, right, starts to fall apart because one's saying one thing, the other saying something different and you have that.
Brian Rowley:So I'm just curious from your perspective, obviously, communication seems like that's another key, really big one.
Bob Osmond:A 100%. And what's interesting is if you read any of the communications industry publications, so like Provoke or PRWeek or O'Dwyer's earlier this year, one of the I don't want to get this wrong, but one of the top priorities for brands was employee comms. Some people call it internal comms. I've never called it that because I don't believe it ever stays internal. And in fact, frankly, I don't know that I want it to stay internal in the sense of I want people to feel the kind of culture that I'm creating within my organization.
Bob Osmond:So employee comms is critical. And you're right, not all employees have the same kind of job. So some are customer facing, some are working in a warehouse in the world of technology. Maybe some are working in a factory or they're wearing a bunny suit all day in a clean room. They don't have things like email.
Bob Osmond:So you have to think of what's the right channel to communicate the message to the audience in the same way that we would think of it in terms of external marketing. But everybody needs to understand what it is they're showing up to go to work for every day. There was a survey by Gallup Workplace, and by their estimation, cultures are two times more likely to exceed customer expectations. And you see all of these different data points based on all kinds of different data sets. But it's pretty clear that if you do not have alignment within your organization, you can't expect to deliver consistent customer experience.
Laura Smith:How do you know if your employees are aligned?
Bob Osmond:Lots of ways. So there are companies like Qualtrics and others who do pulse surveys to determine employee engagement, employee alignment. I think there are ways that you can determine if employees are aligned just by virtue of middle managers and managers talking to their employees. I think you in order to get there, though, there are certain things you have to do. And I think that too often what happens is a lot of brands take a set it and forget it mentality.
Bob Osmond:Like, oh, well, we told them when they came on board, we gave them the employee handbook, and it said what our values are, and it says what our culture is all about. So they should just be able to deliver. The reality is, I forget where I first heard this, but a CEO's job is to be chief repetition officer. We need to hear the messages over and over again about our brand promise, the culture that we want to deliver, and the experience we want to deliver for our customer. So I don't know if that answers your question or not, but I think that there are different ways you can benchmark it.
Bob Osmond:You can test it along the way. And one surefire way, by the way, is to get customer data and feedback.
Laura Smith:Yeah. So I think sometimes people would just like, you know, they're just gonna blow smoke. They're like, sure. Like those surveys and things like that, they're afraid to tell the truth because they think they're gonna get figured out and all that. So that's why I was just more so curious around, like, do you genuinely know when they're aligned?
Laura Smith:I mean, I think behaviors probably show that when people really start to, like you know, you kinda see how people are behaving in their role and they're succeeding and they're having, you know, great reviews and things like that, which all align up to the culture and what you're trying to create. But I think sometimes it's hard to read, but I do like your last point around, we'll get customer data. Is the customer having a good experience, or are they are they engaging with employees that are telling the same message? You know, they're getting that that ex they're meeting their expectations or exceeding their expectations because that really could tell the leader if if that's kinda carrying through the organization or not.
Brian Rowley:I think another thing that's in important too, though, what we're not saying here is hit them with emails every day, right, On and on. I do think there's a responsibility from an organization's perspective to be repetitive, but also to be creative in the way in which they push those messages for alignment.
Bob Osmond:Correct.
Brian Rowley:And Laura, you know, we see it, right? We see it a lot in the digital signage space where, you know, corporate is a vertical for us and you start to see, you know, corporate messaging that's actually being done. In retail, you see, you know, back of house, right? And that as a ways to communicate with employees. But I do think it's important because just communicating and over communicating on one platform can also lead to a very negative culture because people just feel overwhelmed and don't know what to pay attention to or not to pay attention to.
Brian Rowley:So I think we just need to make sure that we're not confusing those points.
Bob Osmond:Yep. I love that clarification, Brian. To your point, digital signing technology is a great example of the of thing that can be used to send messages to employees in a channel that makes sense to them. But I agree with you. Like any marketing message, it needs to be timely and it needs to be relevant.
Bob Osmond:And in the case of building a culture, it needs to be relevant to the person's job. Nobody wants a barrage of emails from corporate telling them stuff. But to the point earlier about building a culture that's aligned, and you used the Ritz Carlton example. I mean, if somebody needs a manager to sign off for what's right for the customer, then you've lost the moment. You do not have a customer experience or a customer centric environment if that's what needs to happen.
Bob Osmond:So the fewer hoops that you can have people jump through because they just know it's the air that they're breathing within the organization, this is what we would do. This is what I think my boss would want me to do. This is what I think our leaders want us to do, but that takes time and repetition to instill.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a really good call out because I think, especially from a leadership perspective, if you're walking around and you're wondering why culture isn't as good as you want it to be, but yet there's all these hoops that people have to jump through in order to create a positive customer experience, then you have to stop and ask yourself, what am I doing wrong here and setting those expectations?
Bob Osmond:100%. So the way I would think about culture is it's the thing that fills the gap when there's no policy. Yeah. We don't know exactly what we would do because we don't have a precedent for this, but I kind of know how we should show up. And I definitely know why we should show up.
Bob Osmond:You quoted, AG Laffley earlier. My favorite AG Laffley quote is that execution is the only strategy the consumer ever sees. And I feel like it's the same thing, to the point I made earlier that, you know, that culture is the most honest thing that a that a company does.
Laura Smith:This has been a great discussion, but it's time for one of our favorite parts of the show, the hot seat. Step up. Step in. You're in the hot seat now. Hot seat.
Laura Smith:Hot seat. Come on and ready. Seat. Right. Obviously, we're ready for some fun.
Laura Smith:Welcome to the hot seat, Bob.
Brian Rowley:Oh,
Laura Smith:boy. Today, we have a special
Brian Rowley:know what you're in.
Laura Smith:You're in it. Today, we have a special twist just for our guest, Bob Osman. So let me preface this a bit for those that don't know Bob. So for years, those those of us that are lucky enough to have worked with him, there's been a running list of what we lovingly call Bobisms to the point that I've even carried them into my new job and team, and people are
Bob Osmond:saying
Laura Smith:them all
Bob Osmond:around the global. I've gone global. I love it.
Laura Smith:They're little nuggets of wisdom around the world. I mean, I'm I have a I have a lot of impact. I have a lot of impact. They're little nuggets of wisdoms. They're sayings.
Laura Smith:There's mantras. There's some inspiring. Some are practical, but they're all classic Bob. So I don't even know if Bob knows that there's this term Bobism, but we've created it, it's become a thing. So now we wanna put it to the test to see if he knows which are Bobisms.
Laura Smith:So we're gonna read a series of quotes. Some are definitely his and some are borrowed. So, Bob, your job is to tell us, is it a Bobism? And if it is, just give us a little bit of context. Don't go on too long.
Laura Smith:Just a little bit of context as to where it came from, why you say it, maybe what it means. There's a few in this list that I say myself to my my personal life as well, which people are probably already ready to kill the Bobisms in my in my world. I know I overuse them.
Brian Rowley:I know there are a couple, Bob, that I deal with every day working with Laura that I'm ready to kill. So just FYI.
Laura Smith:Okay. Let's okay. We're gonna get started. Feedback is a gift.
Bob Osmond:Yeah. That's well, I mean, I think that is a Bobism, but I certainly don't think that I can take credit for the origins of that. Who knows where I heard it? I probably read it in some, I don't know, Brene Brown book or something a hundred years ago. But I do believe that if you're going to create a culture that is a growth culture, you have to embrace feedback as a gift in terms of learning and improvement.
Laura Smith:I wish Brian would really, you know, own up to that one because he doesn't really like feedback at all.
Brian Rowley:No. I've come around to feedback as a gift. I I I'm I'm more with that. There's others that I'm not so sure about.
Laura Smith:Okay. Okay. So I try to use it on you.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Yeah. Let's try this one. Trust is built in small moments.
Bob Osmond:I mean, while I think that's true, I don't think it's a Bobism.
Brian Rowley:It's not. You're right.
Bob Osmond:That's a Brene Brown. Oh, Brene.
Laura Smith:Okay. Next up, bias toward action.
Bob Osmond:That is a Bobism, but also I don't think that I've invented the concept. But I do believe, well, these things are connected. So if you truly embrace a feedback culture, right, where the the notion is that we learn from you know, we win some, we learn some, then having a bias towards action, testing and learning, trying new things is a way to get there. And that includes, by the way, in the context of delivering a customer experience.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. I mean, I I let me just back up for a second. So the whole feedback thing is is I'm deep at the moment, please.
Bob Osmond:Oh, boy. Here we go.
Brian Rowley:I embrace the feedback thing. I think the part of feedback that I have problems with is when people do like that feedback sandwich approach and all that stuff. Right? Like, that's not constructive. Overall constructive criticism and feedback, I welcome every day.
Brian Rowley:But when you try to put it in these little boxes of like, oh, here's all the good things you do. Here's all the terrible things. Like, that doesn't necessarily work
Bob Osmond:for me. Brian, amen to that. I am, along with many other people, on a mission to obliterate the idea of the feedback sandwich. I think it's I think it is more about the person delivering the feedback than it is the person receiving it in that way. So I don't even use I've never used the the concept of constructive criticism.
Bob Osmond:Can I give you some constructive criticism? Because you know what people hear? Criticism. And the beauty of feedback is it's information. And so not to get too pedantic about it, but I think it should I think it should follow a very simple model.
Bob Osmond:This is what I observed. This was the impact of what I observed, and here's my suggestion for going forward. And also, Laura, this is a note for you. The person that you're giving the feedback to, you need to get their permission first before you give them the feedback.
Laura Smith:Am I getting a review right now during during this session? Is this part of my development review? No. I'm just saying.
Bob Osmond:I just think it's advisable that if you're going to be successful in terms of having a person hear you, they need to be ready to hear you. That's all. Brian? Jeff, feedback is a gift.
Brian Rowley:I agree.
Laura Smith:You're welcome. Love it.
Bob Osmond:That big red ribbon on
Producer Joey:that Enjoy your gift, Laura.
Brian Rowley:Enjoy it. I do have a question. Do you happen to have any idea who invented the walk and talks?
Bob Osmond:I think it's from the West Wing.
Brian Rowley:Are you sure it's not from you? Because I'm told that this is your specialty.
Bob Osmond:Well, I I love a walk and talk for sure.
Laura Smith:Me too.
Bob Osmond:Love a walk and talk. But I do think that it is something that I may have stolen from the West Wing. I'd probabl I'm sure ChatchyBT can tell me that, but I'm pretty sure it started with the West Wing, but I've been a huge fan of walk and talk for a long time.
Laura Smith:Yes. And it's another one Brian does not appreciate. I value them. I have them with my Well,
Bob Osmond:he lives in South Florida, for God's sake.
Laura Smith:I have them with my team.
Brian Rowley:Yeah. Try to do a walk and talk in 100 degree weather when you're yelling at me. You're walking. That's not a good time, folks.
Laura Smith:That allows me to do
Bob Osmond:all the talking then. Oh, I love them. High hydrate. Hydrate.
Laura Smith:Okay. Next one up is clarity is kindness.
Bob Osmond:Yeah. Clear is kind. Definitely a Bobism not invented by Bob. But I do think that this this again speaks to the whole notion of feedback. It's like, if you do not people are not mind readers.
Bob Osmond:So so often you get you know, I'll talk to leaders or whatever. It's this whole notion, well, they should have just known to do that. Now not to counter what I said earlier, which is that in a really grooven culture where the customer experience or expectations or how we do things and why we do things is clear, you probably don't have to give so many, you know, quote unquote instruction manuals. However, the clearer you can be with people about things like the brief, you know, what's expected, that deadline, all of that, that's kindness.
Laura Smith:So this wasn't you. That
Brian Rowley:is kindness.
Laura Smith:We did we did give this to Brene Brown.
Bob Osmond:But Oh, Brene.
Laura Smith:But you do have because I feel like you always clear is kind versus clarity is kind.
Bob Osmond:This is the problem with, you Brene and Simon Sinek. They stole all the good stuff.
Brian Rowley:You've still got a couple of good ones in there, though. Oh, do I?
Bob Osmond:Okay. That's one.
Laura Smith:Okay. Next stop, Slides
Brian Rowley:are free.
Bob Osmond:Okay. You've really hit a deep vein.
Laura Smith:Joey's laughing back there. Joey's laughing.
Bob Osmond:You have hit a deep
Producer Joey:I agree with Bob on this one. Me and Bob go way back on this A
Bob Osmond:deep, deep vein here. So the phrase death by PowerPoint lives for a reason. The the challenge people have when they're first of all, setting aside whether or not one needs a slide at all. The problem is is that people I for whatever reason, I think they think there's a scarcity mindset with slides. And so what they decide to do is to dump 15 ideas on one slide.
Bob Osmond:And so when I say slides are free, basically I'm saying you can use as many slides as you need to tell the story. So my view is think in terms of time, not in terms of number of slides that you have. Use as many slides as you need. And Nancy Duarte, by the way, who's the queen of all of this, has written extensively about that.
Brian Rowley:I will tell you, your entire posture just changed when we mentioned this. You're you're like, this is one you're passionate about for sure.
Laura Smith:And I agree
Brian Rowley:with you. I think people get so caught up on, I can only have so many slides. No. You've got a certain amount of time to fill. Yeah.
Brian Rowley:And tell that story however you need to. And a slide could be a five second slide, but move on, but it makes a very strong point. Keep it. It's worth it. Right?
Brian Rowley:So I a 100% agree.
Laura Smith:We've changed the model completely internally with that. Joey and team have helped us do that with really simple high imagery, high impact slides versus words, words, words.
Bob Osmond:Well, yeah. And you don't wanna remind people that they're watching a PowerPoint presentation.
Laura Smith:Right.
Bob Osmond:Right. Hate PowerPoint presentations. However, they love seamless delivery of a story with visual support. Yeah. Yep.
Bob Osmond:Different things.
Laura Smith:Okay. Last up, one of my favorite sayings that I use regularly. I don't know who I learned it from, but don't borrow problems from the future.
Bob Osmond:Well, I again, I say it all the Whether I created it, I have no idea. It was probably Buddha.
Brian Rowley:It's a good one. I can hear this one so much.
Laura Smith:I I just used it today with a friend. Honestly, she was going through some personal stuff, and I said, Honestly, you just can't borrow As an old friend of mine has said, well, he's not old. He's just an old friend of a long Don't borrow problems in the future. And she never heard, and she's like, That's really helpful today. I just needed to hear that.
Laura Smith:So look at that, Bob. Like, I'm telling you, you're impacting the world with all you're saying.
Bob Osmond:I love it. Well, it it's a reminder to be present, and it's a reminder that we can make up lots of stories about all of the bad things that can happen in life. That's not to say we shouldn't scenario plan. You know, the comms guy in me is coming out. We should always scenario plan, but let's not dwell in all of the bad things that could happen.
Bob Osmond:Because, by the way, that's typically where we go. We don't start we don't fantasize about all the good things that can happen. We start to oh, well, this could go wrong and that could go wrong. So yes, be present and don't catastrophize.
Laura Smith:Love it. All right. Well, Bob, thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a very insightful conversation, one that I feel like we could talk about for much longer than we have already. It's everything we hoped for, and we really appreciate all your insights on culture and customer experience.
Bob Osmond:It has been a real pleasure, and I'm loving the podcast. Congratulations to you both. Yeah, good luck with everything.
Brian Rowley:We'll have to have you back on. It's always great to connect with you. And again, I mean, a lot of this we're we're poking a little bit of fun at, but at the same time, there's some really good pieces in here and some really, really interesting things that people should be thinking about when they're actually trying to create that culture.
Bob Osmond:Love it. Thank you.
Laura Smith:Brian, that was really interesting. I do feel like that we sometimes forget how important culture is. It's because you just we as marketers have to think about that. Right? Because we always think it's like who deals with customers the most?
Laura Smith:Sales for the most part, but we do too, and so does finance, and so does our our our manufacturing and our warehouse teams. Like, everyone does. And so if we peel back the layer on that, like, do we feel like our culture you know, we have to think about that. Does our culture help our customer experience? Are we doing more or enough to to make an impact there?
Laura Smith:I don't know.
Brian Rowley:I think you can always do more, in my opinion. I mean, we you know, when we look at sort of the three things that we talked about, empowerment, communication, and alignment, I think from an empowerment perspective, we're moving in the right direction. I think communication is work to be done, but we're also we realize that right. And know that that's a piece to it. And I think we spend a ton of time on alignment, right.
Brian Rowley:Making sure across the organization, people are there. But I think the one thing that Bob said that really stuck out for me was culture fills the gap when there is no policy. I think that's actually really interesting because if you develop your business in a way that can answer that. And again, it goes back to giving people the tools they need in order to create that best customer experience. And those aren't always physical tools.
Brian Rowley:Those are just abilities to do some of the work that they're intended to do. Think a really important
Laura Smith:point. But one piece too to close this out is, like we were at Infocom last week or recently, and there are so many positive customer stories people were telling us and what great experiences they have with BrightSign. So if you look at that, it's sure it's a technology, you know, that's definitely what they're experiencing, but it's it's beyond that. So I guess even challenging my own point I just made, clearly, we're doing something right because people have a lot of great things to say. So we're having a positive impact.
Laura Smith:I just think we have the foundation built, no doubt. Think to your point, we can always do better. So how do we, you know, every day kind of show up to do better to help it kind of continue to be transferred into the the customer experience as well?
Brian Rowley:We start by not borrowing problems from the future.
Laura Smith:And walk and talks. No. Mean, let's just let's just do walk and talks. Every day. Every day.
Laura Smith:Alright. Well, thank you everyone for listening. And most importantly, if you liked what you heard today, be sure to follow us. And if you wanna hear more from Bob, you can find him on LinkedIn at Bob Osmond.
